I need a new tow vehicle, are automatics as good as manual transmissions nowadays? - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:05 AM   #81
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Name: Jim
Trailer: Escape 17B
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Originally Posted by Gmindy View Post
Ya they look ok but I just got my trailer after looking for a year so I don’t think I’ll change. Just won’t use brakes for now
You may not need them... I towed some home-made travel trailers which weighed less than 1500lbs with my manual-transmission Audi.

Watch your speed on the downhills, engine braking helps less than one might imagine (and hope!).

If your boler has brakes, and the charge wire on your 7-way is connected to your battery, you could add a prodigy RF brake controller and have trailer brakes with zero wiring.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:37 AM   #82
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Subaru only installed 4-pin wiring, so there is no charge line, either.

I'm curious... how did you get that 908# weight figure?

You may get away with starting out on some short local trips without the brakes, but I would plan on taking this whole rig to a competent independent shop sooner rather than later, and definitely before any long trips. Ask for a second opinion on the brake wiring.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:17 AM   #83
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Grain elevator scales...they are only a pound or two off. Thanks for the ideas. It will definitely be different than the 60 ft trailers I’m used to driving.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:22 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Subaru only installed 4-pin wiring, so there is no charge line, either.
I was referring to the charge line on the boler. If there are brakes on the boler, there should be a breakaway switch on the boler. That has to be connected to the boler's battery somehow.

If the 7-way on the boler has a charge line to the battery, the prodigy rf could use that 12v source to engage the trailer brakes.

If there is no wiring for brakes ( or even trailer brakes themselves) on the boler, the 4-way on the Subaru is the least of the problems.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:31 AM   #85
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I really like abstract discussions when something is taken to the point of absurdity. At what point does economic reality enter the picture ?
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #86
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Wife's RAV4 only comes with a flat 4, that is all Toyota offers.

I took it down to the local hitch place and had a 7 pin installed. The 7 pin plugs into the flat 4 then you run the extra wires for power and brake controller.

You have options.
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:49 AM   #87
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I really like abstract discussions when something is taken to the point of absurdity. At what point does economic reality enter the picture ?
This is the kind of comment that belongs on rv.net!

Economic reality is: we like our bought-and-paid-for small cars, and like towing our small bought-and-paid-for fiberglass travel trailers with them.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:14 AM   #88
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This is the kind of comment that belongs on rv.net!

Economic reality is: we like our bought-and-paid-for small cars, and like towing our small bought-and-paid-for fiberglass travel trailers with them.
I would like to have a full head of hair and play scratch golf but that ain't going to happen. At some point the laws of physics win out.
By the way our truck and FG trailer were 100% paid for the day we picked them up , which in essence has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
We would like to pull our 17 ft Casita with our Pontiac G6 but common sense got in our way.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:57 AM   #89
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Back in the day, my Pop used to tow (sometimes, when we didn't use the '55 Dodge) a camp trailer with our '63 VW Bug. Going to Death Valley with that setup meant just pinning the throttle until further notice and watching the scenery at a most leisurely pace, with the engine near peak revs. That was around the time we got the '66 Mercedes 200D. That car was definitely "leisurely". It required planning ahead and determination just to get through an intersection. The old '55 Dodge with the Hemi and two speed auto was a nice luxo cruiser. But one year it had a burnt valve and we went camping anyway. Fully loaded, pulling our trailer, and attempting to go over the Sonora pass, with it's 26% grade, was too much and we slowly came to a standstill while floored. That was the year my Pop came down out of Cerro Gordo with it and the brakes were WAY inadequate. After stopping every 100 yards or so to let them cool and avoid disaster, he decided to put it in reverse and regulate the speed with the throttle. Fascinating to see as a kid. That was fine until about a week later when the tranny quit from the abuse and extreme heat. Those trips took their toll on that car. Every time we went rock hounding the muffler would get knocked off and my Pop would make the most creative frown. I loved the sound and the drama of waiting for it to happen.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:04 PM   #90
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We had a Mercedes 190D.
I pulled out to pass back in 1964 and I still haven't been able to get back into my lane.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:17 PM   #91
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We had a Mercedes 190D.
I pulled out to pass back in 1964 and I still haven't been able to get back into my lane.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:47 PM   #92
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Funny, indeed, but I'm not sure how it is relevant.

A new Forester produces 170 hp and 174 ft-lbs of torque (compared to the '64 Beetle's 40 hp/40 ft-lbs and the Mercedes 190D's 76hp/92 ft-lbs). The OP has the 6-speed manual transmission.

The Forester is rated to tow 1500 pounds, which means it can pull 1500 pounds up the Davis Dam grade (peak 12%, well above typical highway grades) at a reasonable speed without a significant increase in drivetrain temperatures.

The OP states that the empty Boler scaled at 908 pounds (wondering if that is an axle weight or total trailer weight- seems on the light side even for a very basic trailer). Either way, with care it is feasible to keep the final loaded weight within 1500 pounds.

Adding brakes, wiring, and controller would greatly enhance safety and cost maybe $500 above the cost of a new axle (which is a separate issue). Adding them is neither absurd nor economically unfeasible, though it sounds like some time is needed to recover from the expenses of the hitch and basic wiring installation.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:21 PM   #93
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I towed a 13' UHaul egg about 2000 miles without trailer brakes (towing with an '84 Dodge Omni), and it worked out ok. Extra braking distance must be allowed whenever possible, and steep downhill grades may need to be traveled in 2nd or even 1st gear (depends how steep) to avoid overheating the Subaru's brakes. But you can tow that way.

Now, go camping!
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:04 PM   #94
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I towed a 13' UHaul egg about 2000 miles without trailer brakes (towing with an '84 Dodge Omni), and it worked out ok. Extra braking distance must be allowed whenever possible, and steep downhill grades may need to be traveled in 2nd or even 1st gear (depends how steep) to avoid overheating the Subaru's brakes. But you can tow that way.

Now, go camping!
Mike,

I'm glad you never encountered any kind of an emergency in traffic, or trailer sway, that would have required trailer brakes to avoid a crash.

These kinds of posts that boil down to, "I took a chance and got away with it, so you should too", are so easy to post. If someone takes your advice and crashes into a stalled car, on a blind curve, or ends up upside down in a ditch, will you be there to help them? If they are already wondering if it's OK to do something that is probably unsafe, or possibly illegal, and they ask for opinions/justifications, on line, should you be the one to encourage them to go ahead?

Why would anyone go out of their way to encourage someone else to take their trailer, their TV their family and themselves, on a trip with no brakes?

Much, much better to suggest the safer route, than the Russian Roulette route. And if you can't suggest the safer route, better to not recommend at all.

We all want to go camping. And we all want to get there and back in one piece without having to tempt fate any more than with the built in dangers that are unavoidable.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:14 PM   #95
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Good post Raspy.
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:02 PM   #96
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We all take chances every day on the road, otherwise we would be driving Sherman tanks instead of relatively fragile automobiles. Not everybody's risk tolerance is the same.
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:58 PM   #97
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We all take chances every day on the road, otherwise we would be driving Sherman tanks instead of relatively fragile automobiles. Not everybody's risk tolerance is the same.
Suggest you reread Raspy's post and then comment.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:01 PM   #98
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We all take chances every day on the road, otherwise we would be driving Sherman tanks instead of relatively fragile automobiles. Not everybody's risk tolerance is the same.
If the risk only involved ourselves, it might be a different story, but highways are public areas where everyone has an affect on everyone else, where passengers put their safety in the hands of the driver, and in the hands of all other drivers in the vicinity. We all must trust each other to make it work. Crashes happen all the time under the best of circumstances. It's not just a risk to me, it's a risk to my family and all others on the road. Shouldn't we be doing our best instead of what we might get away with?

Carelessness toward others is hard to justify and wrong to promote.

Simply imagining how I might get away with something (gearing down to stop, driving very slowly, planning far ahead), isn't a good enough reason to tell others to do it as a normal course of business. They may do it, but I don't want to be an enabler.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:11 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Raspy View Post
If the risk only involved ourselves, it might be a different story, but highways are public areas where everyone has an affect on everyone else, where passengers put their safety in the hands of the driver, and in the hands of all other drivers in the vicinity. We all must trust each other to make it work. Crashes happen all the time under the best of circumstances. It's not just a risk to me, it's a risk to my family and all others on the road. Shouldn't we be doing our best instead of what we might get away with?

Carelessness toward others is hard to justify and wrong to promote.

Simply imagining how I might get away with something (gearing down to stop, driving very slowly, planning far ahead), isn't a good enough reason to tell others to do it as a normal course of business. They may do it, but I don't want to be an enabler.
I tend to agree with this when it comes to the public roads. Back in my law enforcement days I had the unpleasant duty to respond to crash scenes many times, some of them pretty disturbing. And, some of the victims were operating their vehicle safely and responsibly, right before their lives were ended by someone who was not.

I'm not addressing anything technical here, nor the need for trailer brakes. I'm only addressing the fact that we share responsibility for not just our safety but the safety of others around us whenever we drive.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:29 PM   #100
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The owners manual for my old 2008 Toyota RAV4 stated, very clearly, that the trailer hitch itself should be removed from the vehicle when not towing.

Patently ridiculous, of course, but I'm sure there was some lawsuit sometime that cause that little bit of lawyer-induced insanity.
Why would you remove the receiver part of hitch from your vehicle? That is ridiculous. That would be a lot of work since they are on very tight to prevent them from coming loose. Putting them on and off would eventually wear the holes and bolts out. We remove the ball and hitch. Maybe that's what they meant and not the receiver on the vehicle. Remember it is probably a foreign vehicle and those books are done in foreign countries sometimes and contain weird info. We always take our hitch off so no one steals it even though we lock it on and also to prevent knocking our knees off of us or someone else in a parking lot. I've almost knocked my knees off on vehicles I've parked to.
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