Installing Brakes on a TT - Fiberglass RV
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #1
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Installing Brakes on a TT

In preparation for an 8,000 mile road trip that will be going through Yellowstone and the Tetons I am looking at a Scamp 13’ TT that’s for sale about 4 hours from me (Link: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...amp-52576.html ). The trailer is about ~1000# unloaded.

The problem is, it does not have brakes and my tow vehicle is a 2003 Ford Escape 2x4 w/o a tow package.
I am going to Uhaul to have a 3500# trailer hitch installed, as well as the wiring and an aux transmission cooler (I was told I don’t need the engine oil cooler).

My question was, can you get electric brakes installed on any of these models? I am not sure if electric brakes came optional on this model (1998 model) but I imagine if so that would make it more likely that I could get them installed. If having them installed by a third party is possible, what does that cost and where do I get that done? I live in DC so I know there are a lot of RV dealers out in the suburbs around me.
Thanks!
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:47 PM   #2
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If the trailer has the mounting flanges for the brakes, it is easy to mount brakes. The parts are relatively cheap, a RV dealer may charge excessively to install them. The mounting flanges look like this (the square part with 4 holes):
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Spindle_with _brake_flange.jpg  
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:50 PM   #3
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And if the trailer doesn't have the mounting flanges? What type of work would I be looking at, axel replacement?

Also, to install them myself what type of setup or tools do I need? I dont really have access to many tools or space in the city...
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:00 PM   #4
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And if the trailer doesn't have the mounting flanges? What type of work would I be looking at, axle replacement?
If there are no flanges, you might be able to have the flanges welded on at a trailer shop. These flanges are sold separately. If that is not possible, then yes, a new axle.

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Also, to install them myself what type of setup or tools do I need? I dont really have access to many tools or space in the city...
Minimal tools needed if the flange is there. A jack, some wrenches, some wiring supplies.

Check out etrailer - there is a lot of information there and parts photos that will clarify. You would basically be bolting a backing plate to the flange with brake shoes, then replacing the bearing hub with a brake drum / bearing hub. Run a wire from brakes to a 7 pin connector, add a controller to your tow vehicle and you've got it.

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:15 PM   #5
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If it does have flanges, any mechanic or shop that works on trailers should be able to install the brakes. One thing you should consider is what connector does the Scamp have now? (4 pin, 7 pin) If it has the flanges, you might even get Uhaul to install the brakes and wiring.

An axle swap may not be a bad idea if you want brakes. You are getting close to the 15 - 20 years anticipated lifespan of a torsion axle.

You would need wrenches and wiring tools to do it yourself. You might have to grease the bearings as well if they do not come pregreased. Google (installing trailer brakes) and you will get a load of info and video's on how to do it yourself.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #6
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Great, thanks!

Could anyone give me a general idea of how expensive a new axel would be?

Thanks,
Will
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:30 PM   #7
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Just put brakes on my 2001.

My guess is the axle will not have flanges, and the axle will be welded to the frame. Way to go Scamp.

Welding the flanges on an axle without them I hear is not a great idea, it'll never be as precise and strong as safety related equipment should be.

I had my old axle cut off, brackets added to the chassis and a new Dexter axle with brakes bolted on.

I called Scamp a long time ago as told them I wanted to replace the welded axle with a new bolted on one, and they sold me frame/axle brackets. But now the brackets it seems are only for 16" Scamps, and they sold be 4 and I'd only ever need 2 (if I had a trailer they'd even fit on). And they can't explain who or why I got sold those parts, not sure they will take them back. My chasis guy had to make custom brackets. Also, Dexter had assembled the brakes for traditional rear pointing trailing arms, but the 13" Scamp has front facing arms, so the brakes had to be taken off and turned around, not that hard, but keep it in mind.

Anyone else actually put a bolt on set up a scamp that had a welded on axle??

An axle takes weeks to order and get delivered. So that's not something your likely to get done last minute.

All that said, I was hoping to get brakes on ASAP due to my small TV, but I've towed 2000 miles, just being very careful and I'm not sure I ever had a moment when I felt I NEEDED brakes. But I'm glad I have them now.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:32 PM   #8
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Great, thanks!

Could anyone give me a general idea of how expensive a new axel would be?

Thanks,
Will
A new Dexter axle with 8" brakes was under $400. $360 I think even. But I spent another $600 having the old axle cut off, having custom brackets made and installing everything.

I'd plan on about a grand to have a shop do it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:42 PM   #9
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...........Welding the flanges on an axle without them I hear is not a great idea, it'll never be as precise and strong as safety related equipment should be...............
I'd get a second opinion on this before I popped a grand for a new axle. Trailer fab shops weld spindles onto axles every day, so they know what is likely to cause an issue or not.

When you get it, take it to a local place that builds and repairs (utility) trailers and ask their opinion.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #10
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I thought a grand sounded a little expensive too. I spent about that a few years ago but that included 3 new tires and rims. So my cost was about $700 installed including the wiring.

Dylan did mention custom brackets and installing everything. If I recall, stock brackets were somewhere between $20 and $40. Ordering everything at once from Dexter was much cheaper than assembling parts afterwards.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:00 PM   #11
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I thought a grand sounded a little expensive too. ..........
Yea, the point I was making was that the difference between an axle set up for brakes and one not set up is whether that little square bracket is welded onto the spindle.

So, a competent fab shop should be able to slide on the bracket, true it and weld it for a nominal amount, especially if you hire them to install the brakes and new hubs.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:05 PM   #12
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I thought a grand sounded a little expensive too. I spent about that a few years ago but that included 3 new tires and rims. So my cost was about $700 installed including the wiring.

Dylan did mention custom brackets and installing everything. If I recall, stock brackets were somewhere between $20 and $40. Ordering everything at once from Dexter was much cheaper than assembling parts afterwards.
There are no brackets for 13" Scamps according to Scamp (but I get the impression they smoke some awesome herb over there in Backus Minesota sometimes! Get different answers asking the same question multiple times.). Dexter might have some, but getting them on the frame without removing the frame may be an issue. The ones I had even if they were able to modify them or the frame would have put the bolts in a place where the axle got in the way of tightening them. I don't know, it was confusing, who knows, my installer may have over complicating things. If the axle being replaced was a bolt on I'd expect it to be much cheaper, and still cheaper if I just wanted to weld the new axle on. Where my costs grew where from them spending time trying to make the parts Scamp sold me work, and then abandoning that and making custom brackets. Good chance someone could do it cheaper, but I also got much higher quotes when I was in California (no shock there).
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:33 PM   #13
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The brackets that came with both my Dexter Torflex axles are welded on exactly the same as welding on the axle itself. The only difference is the thickness of the bracket itself. Depending on the orientation (inboard or outboard), that may affect the spacing when ordering. Have a look at this diagram (Dexter calls the bracket the AP Kit):
http://www.cerka.ca/Torflex_order_form.pdf

I'm not sure about welding the brake flange on a spindle on a torsion axle. There was mention of not overheating the rubber. Then again, almost all the axles are welded on closer to the rubber than the spindle.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
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...........I'm not sure about welding the brake flange on a spindle on a torsion axle. There was mention of not overheating the rubber. Then again, almost all the axles are welded on closer to the rubber than the spindle.
You wouldn't overheat the rubber inserts by welding on the spindle. I think that the issue comes in when you weld directly on the tube that holds the rubber parts.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:06 PM   #15
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Yea, the point I was making was that the difference between an axle set up for brakes and one not set up is whether that little square bracket is welded onto the spindle.

So, a competent fab shop should be able to slide on the bracket, true it and weld it for a nominal amount, especially if you hire them to install the brakes and new hubs.
Every shop I called and asked about putting flanges on refused. Saying it wasn't a good idea if even possible. Not saying it can't be done, just saying it sounds like it could be done wrong and not many welders seem to want to try it.

I think some hubs may have had tabs for aligning the brake bracket, but mine didn't. So those may make the difference.

If the axle's 15 years old, I'd want a new one. That said, if you can weld the brake brackets/flanges on it will probably be dramatically cheaper. But I'd be happy to pay the money to know my axle was fresh and my brakes weren't going to fall off my hubs.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #16
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............. But I'd be happy to pay the money to know my axle was fresh and my brakes weren't going to fall off my hubs.
As long as we are spending someone else's money, I agree!
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #17
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As long as we are spending someone else's money, I agree!
Speak for yourself, don't include me in that "we". I actually did make this same call with my own money.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #18
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Hello Will and welcome to the forum. The axles on my 2010 Trillium were purchased from a chain called Redneck Trailer Supplies. There is one in eastern Pennsylvania. My axles are Dexter axles with both the bracket that allows the axle to be bolted on and the brakes. I would think a spring and axle shop could get and install an axle but Redneck might have one in stock. Raz

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:37 PM   #19
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Hello Will and welcome to the forum. The axles on my 2010 Trillium were purchased from a chain called Redneck Trailer Supplies. There is one in eastern Pennsylvania. My axles are Dexter axles with both the bracket that allows the axle to be bolted on and the brakes. I would think a spring and axle shop could get and install an axle but Redneck might have one in stock. Raz

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Thanks Raz, I will check them out. Although judging from the website and previous posts in this thread, its becoming apparent that I am painfully un-knowledgable in all things axle related. That torflex order form makes my head hurt. If I called or emailed the redneck trailer guy with some specs of the camper would they be able to figure things out for me?
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:44 PM   #20
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Thanks Raz, I will check them out. Although judging from the website and previous posts in this thread, its becoming apparent that I am painfully un-knowledgable in all things axle related. That torflex order form makes my head hurt. If I called or emailed the redneck trailer guy with some specs of the camper would they be able to figure things out for me?
I would find a spring and chassis shop and let them deal with it. Try an RV dealer and ask who does their axle work. The axle needs to be installed correctly or you will have tire issues just like on a car. Perhaps if they order, you can pick up. Save shipping.
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