Its Back - J2807 New Common towing Standard - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2014, 12:48 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
For must of us on this forum who are towing very light to medium sized loads we need accurate specs and testing which would make up good numbers. The folks at SAE have not addressed this level of TV which is unfortunate.

.
According to the Standards SAE International website the SAE J2807 it was in fact written for all vehicles up to 13,000 GVWR not just trucks

" This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR."

So it seems they did take into consideration the lighter passenger cars/SUV's and vans that many here tow are light fiberglass trailers with and explains why Toyota used it on all the vehicles in their 2014 model year line up that they have put a tow rating on.

As Floyd says there is a lot of factors that go into making a good tow vehicle and one needs to educate themselves in order to make a decision as to what works for you.

This is simple just one more tool that a consumer can use to help them decide if they need a Dual axle Hemi truck or a Toyota Corolla in order to get a safe/comfortable tow with a 17' Boler or if perhaps the answer is neither.

The consumer now knows that as far as the testing goes they are comparing apples to apples not Corporate lawyer to lawyer as some here have suggested in the past as to how/who sets tow ratings.
__________________

Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 03:27 PM   #16
MC1
Senior Member
 
MC1's Avatar
 
Name: Wayne
Trailer: Nest fan, Airstream Sold
Ontario
Posts: 2,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
As Floyd says there is a lot of factors that go into making a good tow vehicle and one needs to educate themselves in order to make a decision as to what works for you.
No doubt Floyd and I are on the same page when it comes to his statement above.
__________________

__________________
MC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 03:53 PM   #17
MC1
Senior Member
 
MC1's Avatar
 
Name: Wayne
Trailer: Nest fan, Airstream Sold
Ontario
Posts: 2,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
" This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR."

So it seems they did take into consideration the lighter passenger cars/SUV's and vans that many here tow are light fiberglass trailers with and explains why Toyota used it on all the vehicles in their 2014 model year line up that they have put a tow rating on.

The consumer now knows that as far as the testing goes they are comparing apples to apples not Corporate lawyer to lawyer as some here have suggested in the past as to how/who sets tow ratings.
This is news to many of us as you have shown. They will be testing all vehicles. All I can say is Wow. That will be a lot of man hours of work for the auto companies.

It really makes one wonder how this will all come about. The variables involved with the whole towing deal. Hummmmm.

I'm thinking the tow ratings on many smaller vehicle, mini vans, etc are dramaticly going to go up now that the lawyers and marketers are being squeezed out of the process. These vehicles will be more in line with the off shore ratings or may be even higher with the use of the WDH.
__________________
MC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 04:04 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 6,048
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post

The consumer now knows that as far as the testing goes they are comparing apples to apples not Corporate lawyer to lawyer as some here have suggested in the past as to how/who sets tow ratings.
The question is... what sort of apples are they selling?... I like to make my own choices for my own "applecations".

This could be the first time we would be required to be "PC" when choosing "Apples"!



__________________
floyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 05:19 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
This is news to many of us as you have shown. They will be testing all vehicles. All I can say is Wow. That will be a lot of man hours of work for the auto companies.

It really makes one wonder how this will all come about. The variables involved with the whole towing deal. Hummmmm.

I'm thinking the tow ratings on many smaller vehicle, mini vans, etc are dramaticly going to go up now that the lawyers and marketers are being squeezed out of the process. These vehicles will be more in line with the off shore ratings or may be even higher with the use of the WDH.
Actually some of them went down & some up on the 2013 model year (as well as the years prior) from various manufactures - cars and trucks - and lots of people yelled here about the ones that went down as it was not fully understanding the probable reasons behind it. Ford has acknowledged that the tow ratings on the all newly redesigned 2013 Ford Escape for example were in fact established using the SE J2807.

The reason why they have all been testing for a number of years now is very simple. The auto makers had all agreed the new towing standard would be in place for their 2013 model year offerings. So no surprise they all started running those tests in the years prior thus the down grading of some tow ratings and the up grading of others that took place in 2013 & in some cases the years prior. It was also no surprise that a number of the auto makers also introduced redesigned vehicles in 2013 (the Ford Escape being one) - some suggest that was to avoid having to down grade their tow ratings if they had stuck to their old vehicle design as some suggest Subaru had to do on their 2013 Forester based on the SE testing - the 2013 model year was based on the same design they had been using since 2009.

It was only when one of the BIG 3 decided at the last minute that they where going to pull out of the deal that the other 2 big 3 members decided to pull out as well, so the other manufactures who had signed onto the deal also bailed out .... all except Toyota. Toyota on the other hand decided to carry on as planned and actually advertised on their 2013 and 2014 models they were using the new towing standards. Funny enough the popular RAV4 got a big new redesign in 2013 as well ;-)

Here is an interesting article from earlier last year that more or less explains the mess that took place in regards to why those who had agreed to implement in 2013 pulled out of the deal:
Automotive News - Pickup truck towing Standard isn't standard.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 04:55 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Name: Ray
Trailer: 21' Escape - former owner of 17' "other brand."
Florida
Posts: 699
Registry
Actually, Toyota started using the J2807 standard back in 2011 for their Trucks.
__________________
Ray N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 05:32 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 6,048
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
. Ford has acknowledged that the tow ratings on the all newly redesigned 2013 Ford Escape for example were in fact established using the SE J2807.

It was also no surprise that a number of the auto makers also introduced redesigned vehicles in 2013 (the Ford Escape being one) - some suggest that was to avoid having to down grade their tow ratings if they had stuck to their old vehicle design as some suggest Subaru had to do on their 2013 Forester based on the SE testing - the 2013 model year was based on the same design they had been using since 2009.

. Funny enough the popular RAV4 got a big new redesign in 2013 as well
Who are these "some" who have suggested that the tow ratings on the previous generation Escape were not legitimate while it was only "funny enough" that Toyota did the same with out such disparaging implications?

It would , I suppose, be a simple enough matter to subject the 2012 Escape and 2012 RAV4 to the test to determine whether they met the new standard with the old models. This could then send thousands of Toyota and Ford owners, impelled by this latest Zeitgeist, scrambling to their dealers to trade in their proven TVs to avoid certain and imminent death due perhaps to the fact that they may have taken an extra half second to reach 60MPH!
BTW, in my state, contests of acceleration on public roads are illegal.

Who initially asked SAE to come up with a universal standard, and how did they determine that SAE was more qualified than the manufacturers to set standards for their respective products?
How much bullying has been done to get the manufacturers to comply?

This whole thing brings to mind the one important bit of truth imparted to me by my high school algebra teacher. He said....
" You know son...liars may figure, but figures don't lie!"
__________________
floyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:14 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Bob Miller's Avatar
 
Name: Bob
Trailer: 1973 Hunter Compact II
California
Posts: 7,912
The 0-60 and other acceleration standards have nothing to do with "Speed Contests". They have to do with safe driving, i.e. can the vehicle safely accelerate when entering traffic etc.


I think that we have all had a vehicle pulling a trailer pull out in front of us at one time or another that made us wonder if it was every going to get moving at the speed of traffic.
__________________
Bob Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:34 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Name: Glenn ( second 'n' is silent )
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B '08 RAV4 SPORT V6
British Columbia
Posts: 4,369
I don't think Ford or Toyota give a hoot about the small trailer market. It's too small.
I have read that Toyota dropped the V6 ( and thus the tow rating ) in the RAV4 in order to fulfill CAFE requirements ( Corporate Average Fuel Economy ). The 4-cylinder was selling well. A friend who has managed Ford, Toyota and Honda dealerships ( sometimes two at a time ) told me, when I was buying my RAV4 V6 that they had many potential customers opt for the four because the V6 was too quick and scared them.
We, the small, lightweight trailer market are insignificant.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
Glenn Baglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:49 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Floyd can't say for sure who as you suggest bullied the manufactures into complying. It may have been members of the auto manufacturing groups themselves who got tired of one or the other making towing claims they did not agree with or a consumer group or it could simple have been the membership of the SAE themselves.

Why not have an SAE standard for establishing towing ratings? They have them for thousands of other items in the automotive industry - ranging from the measuring of engine power right down to headlamps.
__________________

Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Common Tire Size Question Craig D. Thompson Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 2 04-10-2012 08:04 PM
Extremely common disease with no Known cure Tom U Jokes, Stories & Tall Tales 6 03-12-2011 10:28 PM
its not always the campground, its the people Gina D. General Chat 4 10-30-2010 03:21 AM
Is it common? Quint General Chat 10 11-17-2006 12:33 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.