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Old 11-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #21
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The reason that I mentioned what I did was that we had a recent poster who was going to hang a lot of weight on his conventional trailer because a poster on another forum had done it without problems with a 5W trailer....

People sometimes see what they want in what they read on forums like this, so it's best to be very clear.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:00 PM   #22
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I have a 2004 jeep wrangler and am considering 16' dad if. Concerned with mountain roads. Have your experiences since you have been driving your rig with a Jeep then good.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:49 AM   #23
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On a related note. I thought my draw bar was a bit long so I drilled another hole about 2 inches back from the factory hole. Now my ball is about 2 inches closer to my rear axle and my shins are less often barked. Not sure if it affected towing but physics says it must be better.

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Old 01-02-2018, 09:09 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzqnio View Post
I have a 2004 jeep wrangler and am considering 16' dad if. Concerned with mountain roads. Have your experiences since you have been driving your rig with a Jeep then good.
Susan, I would urge caution. This is a 10 year old thread, and the satisfactory report only covered the maiden trip home in the Southeast. From my experience, California mountains can be pretty demanding on a tow vehicle due to grade, temperature, winds, elevation, and other factors that may be very different than the earlier poster's experience.

As others already suggested, consider the liability aspect of towing a trailer that will probably end up running almost 50% over the manufacturer's tow rating. I was towing in SoCal in heavy traffic at about 50 mph when a small sports car pulled right in front of me and immediately braked hard to make a rapidly approaching exit. It was a close call, and one that reminded me that it doesn't have to be your fault in order to be held liable. If I had been towing an overweight trailer, the outcome might easily have been different and a lawyer would have had a field day at my expense.

You might also want to edit your post to clarify the type of trailer- a "dad if" is not a brand we know here.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzqnio View Post
I have a 2004 jeep wrangler and am considering 16' dad if. Concerned with mountain roads. Have your experiences since you have been driving your rig with a Jeep then good.
Susan,

We towed our 16" Scamp with our Sahara knowing that we were pushing the limits of the towing capacity as well as the safety margins. We never had an issue, BUT, we never tried anything of any real consequence. I always felt like it was a precarious situation and every single time we arrived home safely, I exhaled a huge sigh of relief. And I burned a lot of clutch backing up the 30' hill of our driveway...but that's just me.

There are a lot of safety concerns when it comes to towing and there are many finer points to towing capacity that most people don't want to take the time to understand: engine, transmission, differentials and brakes as well as tow vehicle weight, weight distribution and mass/inertia.

The only Jeep that I would recommend attempting to tow with would be a Rubicon because that model has the highest rated towing capacities that you'll find in your owner's manual. Even then, the capacity listed for a Rubicon are at the outside end of the capabilities for towing the lightest FGRV's. Once you add gear, water, fuel and bodies, you be pushing your limits and it's not worth the risk. This towing ability is reflected in the wiring harness of my Jeep Sahara that only included a four pin plug on the wiring harness of my JKW. I upgraded to a seven pin as well as a brake controller to enable us to pull our Scamp.

Based on my experience, I think that a Jeep of any model should only tow a smaller utility trailer and never a full sized boat or camper, but that's only my opinion and not worth the paper it's written on. You'll find people, like me, that have done it and come home safely. You'll also find many people will disagree with my assessment and recommendation and I'm ok with that; I've done it and I know what I experienced.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...be careful and choose wisely.

bill (not laura)
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:37 PM   #26
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The tow ratings for Wranglers are based, at least partially, on "stability", not overall weight. For instance, the 4 door Wrangler has a tow rating of 3,500 lbs and the 2 door, with identical engine, trans and equipment is rated for 2,000 lbs. Trailer weight is only one factor, but is used as a general rule.

You could move a trailer of much higher weight around a parking lot, with complete safety, or pull a heavy stump at near zero speeds, but you could easily crash a trailer much lighter than the rated weight while speeding along in a cross wind.

The reduced tow rating for the 2 door is the factory limit at which the stability control system is still likely to get you out of trouble in an emergency, or help you significantly while cornering or braking. Wranglers have a number of design features working against stability.

A tow rating of "2000 lbs" is not a good way to tell you much more than how it will cross a mountain range with steep grades, or stop in an emergency. What should be considered is some kind of "stability" factor.

Someone earlier mentioned towing a boat trailer and used that for evidence that a Scamp would be fine, but they are not the same thing at all. A ski boat trailer, for instance, is very stable because it is very low, has a long distance between the ball and the axle, has stiff suspension, low cross wind resistance and is wide. Boat trailers tow very well in general, at any speed.

Short and high trailers with soft suspensions are much less stable, even if they weigh less. Also, travel trailers can have a large difference in their weight distribution at different times, which changes their stability.

Just the fact that someone is concerned if they are too close to the factory limit and asking all kinds of advice, and getting all kinds of answers, means that there is a valid concern.

The person that has limited experience and wants to tow with a vehicle that is less stable than most and at the upper weight limits recommended, and then says they tow up to 70 mph with that setup and think it's fine just because they didn't crash it on one trip home, is getting set up for a disaster.

We need a stability factor of some kind, in addition to a simple weight factor. And we need more common sense than to compare apples to oranges or to use unrelated evidence to justify what we want to do.

Advice from a salesman that it's fine to tow an empty trailer, that is barely below the rating of the vehicle, is not good advice. Just because a Wrangler once towed a boat trailer, doesn't meant a travel trailer will be stable. Speeding along with limited towing experience, and not crashing it, doesn't mean it's safe. Using an empty trailer weight to argue the safety of the towing limit, ignores the reality of real world weights and weight distribution.

Being concerned that one is getting too close to the towing limit, means they are getting too close to the towing limit. We never know how much margin we are going to need during the emergency stop or emergency avoidance that catches us off guard. More margin is better. Less is worse. And speed is probably the biggest factor of all. Slower is better. Faster is worse.

For example, my friend just crashed his rig on Christmas eve. A 3/4 ton Ram/ Cummins towing a small travel trailer. A single car accident, during the day, on a dry level road, with no other cars in sight. He rolled it four times, totaled the truck and trailer and was trapped inside, upside down, until a passerby came along about 20 minutes later and cut his seat belt to get him out. His margin of safety was very high, in theory. Never a thought to wether his truck could handle the trailer weight. Weight was not the issue. Stability and speed were.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:35 PM   #27
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It's a good thing we didn't know how dangerous it was. We thought Jeeps and trailers went together like peanut butter and jelly... No trailer brakes, not even seat belts. I believe these images are of early the Jeep testing program in WWII.

Tom
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