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Old 02-16-2011, 10:16 PM   #61
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The federal tax in the US is about six cents higher for diesel than gas. States add their own. Locally, our LOFT (county tax on gas and diesel) is the same six cents for either by the gallon.
I don't know why the federal tax is higher for diesel.
Sherry
My list could be out of date, but it says that Florida adds 16 cents per gallon to diesel and gas. Maryland adds 23.5 cents to gas and 24.25 cents to diesel, bu they are talking about raising it another 10 cents. Woohoo!
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:07 PM   #62
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Toyota fork lifts are available with a four cylinder diesel, why wouldn't Toyota put a turbo on that and get the emissions up to snuff and put that in a Tacoma or 4runner?
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:16 PM   #63
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My list could be out of date, but it says that Florida adds 16 cents per gallon to diesel and gas. Maryland adds 23.5 cents to gas and 24.25 cents to diesel, bu they are talking about raising it another 10 cents. Woohoo!
McBrew,
Your list may not be out of date. The state of Florida adds their tax per gallon to gasoline (as well as diesel), above the federal tax.
I was discussing our local LOFT (Local option fuel tax, I think...) tax for county benefit.
Our Florida counties are allowed to add another local 1, 2 or 6 cents per gallon (as allowed per state law, LOFT, for certain transportation associated budgets, so of course, most counties do the max of 6....), plus some other sundry fees and whatever to bring the total tax base on a gallon of gas to well over 53 cents a gallon in our county in Florida. We're about in the median for the U.S. Some states are much higher, and some much lower. We usually try to fill up in SC when going north; they're much more traveler friendly.
Sherry
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:20 PM   #64
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I want this, badly... Diesel engine in combination with manual is still best and most economic... The Toyota Hilux is the pendent to our Tacoma, available in Diesel only...

http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/hilux/specs.aspx
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:06 PM   #65
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Gerda, I agree it's very nice. And I think a number of us would love to see that truck (and the global diesel Ranger, and the others!) for sale in North America.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #66
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....................... small trucks have grown each year over the last decade (gasoline) to the point where the "small pickups" are very close to the size of our older Silverado...................Sherry
It seems that the automotive world of ours moved away from gas mileage efficiency in lieu of size and acceleration. Engine improvements are struggling to keep-up with these two trends. I picked one example: some of you might remember the famous Datsun 240Z and most of you likely know the present time equivalent, the Nissan 370Z.

- Datsun 240Z at 2355 lb. accelerated from o to 60 in 8 sec., actual combined 26 MPG.
- Nissan 370Z at 3360 lb. accelerated from o to 60 in 5.2 sec., EPA combined 22 MPG.

So; weight up by 1000 lb., acceleration up by 35%, MPG down by 15%.
The truly strange fact is that the US, with its hunger for size and acceleration, did not use the diesel option which could be copied, not invented, from elsewhere. There are 2 fundamental differences between Otto gas and Diesel cycles which will always make the diesel cycle more efficient:

1. High compression.
2. No throttle valve (diesel engines struggle braking downhill).

I could explain the need for size trend but I won’t. Regarding the acceleration trend; we probably need to get to work faster because we make so much more dough.
George.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:24 PM   #67
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I wouldn't be too concerned about the trend; I believe it will be self correcting. Gas prices are cruising towards $4 a gallon and will not stop there and deisel taxes are even higher because politicians believe it's reserved for commercial truckers (not mainstream voters).

Inflation has been accelerating and the dollar is becoming worth less, insuring higher fuel prices. Eventually it will means people will continue to march towards smaller cars and RVs. This is the primary reason we just bought a Scamp. At $5 a gallon it cost $0.70 to drive a mile, Yikes!

A 370Z is a fringe car and does not describe what's happening in the marketplace and acceleration takes energy.

Norm
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:26 PM   #68
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Honestly, Norm, I think the car manufacturers are following your thread of thought.
In Europe, where gas and diesel cost about double or better than our fuel, the initial cost increment of buying an efficient diesel is almost a no-brainer. Here, the payback is probably close to three to four years of ownership, (depending on the vehicle, your annual mileage, and local gas/diesel pricing). Many North Americans don't even keep their vehicles that long. Yes, that's putting aside the value of higher resale of a used diesel vs. gas engine.
Diesel here is, truly, primarily used by the big trucks, who pay the premium, or off-road (construction, farm, etc.) where taxes are reduced, and the diesel is "dyed". It's a big Catch 22... till the product, available world-wide except North America, is made available, there's no real reason to regain parity in gasoline and diesel taxation and pricing.
Sherry
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:29 PM   #69
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Here are more main stream examples;

2011 Honda Accord V-6, 0-60mph 7.4 seconds; EPA gas mileage - city 19mpg, & EPA highway 29mpg

2011 Toyota Sienna AWD, 0-60mph 8.5 seconds; EPA gas mileage - city 16mpg, & EPA highway 22mpg
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:09 PM   #70
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We regularly average 28 mpg with our Honda CRV and get 30 with pure highway driving, 23 mpg towing. Our car is now 7 years old with 135,000 miles. Actually mileage has been improving.

At $5 a gallon for gas that amounts to $0.20 a mile. For us on a typical loop of the USA we average about 30-40 miles a day, the order of $6-8 a day.

My personal goal is an electric solution. If the Nissan Leaf had twice the range it would do the job for us since we don't go far in a day nor do we drive fast. I believe the next few years will bring an electric solution as battery capacity increases.

Norm
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:05 AM   #71
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To further illustrate the change in expectations when it comes to automotive performance: a new Sienna has a quicker 0-60 time than the original Porsche 911.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:16 AM   #72
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maybe GM will enter this market,

According to GMInsideNews, "General Motors is mulling the notion of introducing a diesel Chevrolet Cruze to the American market. Sources within the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant responsible for piecing the compact sedan together have confirmed that a diesel Cruze will be built for 2013."

"There's even rumor that GM is currently testing diesel Cruze models around the greater Detroit area right now. While no power or fuel economy numbers are available at the moment, GM is expected to make use of a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine for the new model. That would be the same one found in the Holden Cruze CDX, which turns out 147 horsepower and 235 pound-feet of torque with up to 34 miles per gallon combined."
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:02 PM   #73
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maybe GM will enter this market,

According to GMInsideNews, "General Motors is mulling the notion of introducing a diesel Chevrolet Cruze to the American market. Sources within the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant responsible for piecing the compact sedan together have confirmed that a diesel Cruze will be built for 2013."

"There's even rumor that GM is currently testing diesel Cruze models around the greater Detroit area right now. While no power or fuel economy numbers are available at the moment, GM is expected to make use of a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine for the new model. That would be the same one found in the Holden Cruze CDX, which turns out 147 horsepower and 235 pound-feet of torque with up to 34 miles per gallon combined."
Perhaps after Bob Lutz departure from GM, they are more open to Diesel; this indeed would be good news.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:26 PM   #74
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Good news/bad news about the Mahindra diesel. Good news according to "Truck Trend" is that it passed EPA certification. Bad news is that it only achieved 19/21 MPG for the 4WD version, less than the 30 expected.

John
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:53 PM   #75
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sounds about right.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:06 PM   #76
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Any news about the 2WD version. I don't give a rip about having 4WD....
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:07 PM   #77
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it's probably not much better, too bad.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:19 PM   #78
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A similar truck, Nissan Navarra gets combined 27.6 US MPG (33.2 UK MPG). Engine is 2.5l with manual transmission. Personally, I doubt EPA numbers.
Nissan vehicle emissions
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:29 PM   #79
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To further illustrate the change in expectations when it comes to automotive performance: a new Sienna has a quicker 0-60 time than the original Porsche 911.
May be but it would be fun to watch that Sienna on a road race course.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:43 PM   #80
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To further illustrate the change in expectations when it comes to automotive performance: a new Sienna has a quicker 0-60 time than the original Porsche 911.
Someone actually tried this. Pretty funny - and this was in 2003 (albeit, of course, against a 356 and an XKE, not a 911). These days, minivans are only faster and more powerful.
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