Mahindra diesel pickup

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Touareg TDI does look interesting
VW Touareg V10 TDI Vs.. Chevy 2500 HD - YouTube

Like David vs Goliath!

[Andrew Gibbens]

A British motoring TV program using a Touareg:

Fifth Gear - VW Touareg towing 747 Jumbo Jet - YouTube

It is borderline fakery, as the 747 is an old one used as a film prop and it has no interior and fake engines (off a B52, maybe?) but nevertheless, it makes an excellent image.

[cpaharley2008]

According to this, it is the 2.8 version for better economy,
Update 2: Cummins, Feds Developing Four-Cylinder Diesel for Nissan Titan - PickupTrucks.com News
Cummins Tests Four-Cylinder Diesel in a Nissan Titan - WOT on Motor Trend

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Touareg TDI does look interesting
VW Touareg V10 TDI Vs.. Chevy 2500 HD - YouTube

The V10 is gone (by about four years) - the current Touareg diesel is the 3.0 L V6. Just as well - the monster V10 had trouble meeting emissions regulations, and used more fuel than the gas engines.

Despite all the diesel fans saying they would buy one if only it were offered, I don't think they're commonly chosen. Perhaps that's because the extra US$3500 and couple hundred pounds give the diesel owner no more towing capacity, slower performance, and not enough better fuel economy (VW.com comparison)

Originally Posted by Radar1

Like David vs Goliath!

Really? A current V6 diesel Touareg weighs 5000 lb, and the V10 would have been even heftier. It's not a little thing against a giant.

[honda03842]

Brian,

We've considered a small diesel for our next tow vehicle but have pretty much talked ourselves out of it with the seemingly growing cost differences between diesel and gas fuels in the United States (3.74 vs 2.92 in Myrtle Beach, SC) (3.77 vs 3.17 in Wauchula, Fl).

It seems that at least in the USA we've created a different tax structure for diesel. It Toronto the difference between diesel and gas is trivial (1.17 versus 1.14).

When one adds the higher maintenance costs of a diesel, it seems that our best choice is to stay with a gas vehicle.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Joe Z

I am hoping this Mahindra diesel will get the attention of the three big automakers here in the US and come up with a "Ranger" size diesel.From what i have read ford has a ranger diesel in Europe but not here for some reason?...........Joe

I was in the automotive biz for most of my career. A key human foible is to think that the rest of the 7 billion people on earth have the same wants and tastes as you. That is the only plausible explanation for some of the automotive styling and marketing blunders of the 70's and 80's.

I assure you that if and when there is a real market for small diesels, all the manufacturers will jump in. Everyone wanted an electric car, too, until the 5,000 people that actually wanted one bought, then sales stalled. Once the potential sales justify the engineering, tooling and certification costs, small diesels will come (back).

The Early Ford Ranger Diesel Engines

[Jim Bennett]

I have had lots of different diesels, pretty much pickup sized and larger, and have found them to have less maintenance needed than gas engines, and they last way longer too. Though, if work is needed on them, it can be more costly.

If a decent small 4 cyl diesel was to be offered, I would be taking a real close look.

[GeorgeR]

I just purchased the new 3l diesel which is the only engine available on a Sprinter. A few years ago, their short lived venture into a gas engine ended in a complete fiasco.

We could turn the buying or not diesel question into availability of options where the US unfortunately struggles. To buy a modern walk-in van I had only “two” options – Freightliner or Mercedes. In the EU I could look into Mercedes, VW, Fiat, Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Ford and GM's Opel. Most of these vans in the EU are powered by diesel, but you can also get them powered by gas, CNG, and LPG. Most of them are designed for best gas mileage not torque and power as is the case in the US. The new Sprinter in the EU is supposed to get an average of 35mpg with 7 speed tranny and 2.2l diesel, it is coming to the US but unfortunately too late for me, I did not want to wait another couple of years.

In a pure capitalistic world the market often determines product direction. Not necessarily in the monopolistic world where companies dictate products to better their profits. These are often stated reasons why people don’t want to buy diesels in the US. Most often used qualifiers for these reasons are “people say”:
1. Diesel fuel is more expensive, I agree. From the worldwide perspective it is unusual, in most other places diesel is less, or even with gas, or slightly more. Ask yourself a question, who dictates these prices?
2. Diesels smell and shake, yes, 40 year ago they did.
3. Reliability of diesels is not good, remember GM fiasco, yes, I remember but I am over sixty.
4. Recent diesel engine technology is very complex, yes, but so is gas engine technology such as Ecoboost, 2 turbos, Direct Injection etc.
5. The fuel mileage on new diesels in the US is not 30-40% better, yes, because most diesels (except 2L TDI) are designed for torque and power, why, because “people say it is what people want”. Mazda with its new CX5 diesel, designed for MPG from the get go could become a bestseller beating “media’s favored - what people say” if it is not going to be hammered by temporary diesel price increase.

But there is one predominantly fundamental reason, not mentioned by the US media, why people don’t buy diesels in the USA, because they are not here.

Somehow the rest of the World has more options on their markets such as gas, CNG, LPG, diesel, why not in the US?, but, but,,,,,, we have hydrogen powered fuel cells, yaa.



George.

[Jim Bennett]

Good points, George. Case in point with the manufacturers dictating to improve their profitability is the new Ford Ranger. Available with two different diesel and one gas engine. Not available in North America, as they want to keep pushing their F150 which is a historical best seller. It is getting good reviews in Europe and Australia.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Good points, George. Case in point with the manufacturers dictating to improve their profitability is the new Ford Ranger. Available with two different diesel and one gas engine. Not available in North America, as they want to keep pushing their F150 which is a historical best seller. It is getting good reviews in Europe and Australia.

In this particular case I hope that GM will outsmart Ford and Dodge by continuing to have 2 truck styles, medium Colorado hopefully designed for MPG and large Silverado for loads and towing. If 2014 Colorado is going to bring their small diesel or even small gas engine their strategy could be successful.
Ford's strategic point of not jeopardizing their F150 sales with Ranger is very naive, someone else can, I hope GM will.
George.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

..........
In a pure capitalistic world the market often determines product direction. Not necessarily in the monopolistic world where companies dictate products to better their profits. .........
George.

George, there is no monopoly. Maybe in the 60's when GM had 50% of the market, but right now it is cut throat. You might have even noticed that little bump in the road for GM and Chrysler a couple of years ago.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Good points, George. Case in point with the manufacturers dictating to improve their profitability is the new Ford Ranger. Available with two different diesel and one gas engine. Not available in North America, as they want to keep pushing their F150 which is a historical best seller. It is getting good reviews in Europe and Australia.

Jim, no body dictates to the customer in this market. People buy what they want to buy and not continuing to spend money on a profit losing line is called survival, not dictation.

Why don't you buy a Toyota, Nissan or Honda diesel pickup?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Jim, no body dictates to the customer in this market. People buy what they want to buy and not continuing to spend money on a profit losing line is called survival, not dictation.

Why don't you buy a Toyota, Nissan or Honda diesel pickup?

They surely do. By choosing to not offer the Ranger here, Ford is definitely dictating what among their worldwide products I can purchase. This particular market segment we are talking about, is one that is lacking in across the board in NA, and we are not given options.

As soon as Toyota, Nissan and Honda offer this option, I will be checking them out. Nissan has had a great little 2.2 liter diesel for many years now, but not available in North America.

We are all held victim to some degree by the thought amongst a huge part of the population that bigger is better, and only in recent years have the NA auto consumers become more aware of fuel economy on the whole. I still know lots of people that have big Suburbans and pickups, that really don't need them. I have an F250 with a Powerstroke diesel that I use to pull construction trailers with that weigh up to 14,000 pounds. I am looking forward to the day I know longer need it, and can downsize.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

George, there is no monopoly. Maybe in the 60's when GM had 50% of the market, but right now it is cut throat. You might have even noticed that little bump in the road for GM and Chrysler a couple of years ago.

Jim, no body dictates to the customer in this market. People buy what they want to buy and not continuing to spend money on a profit losing line is called survival, not dictation.

Why don't you buy a Toyota, Nissan or Honda diesel pickup?

I was not talking about automotive companies’ monopoly, just oil companies. Driving diesel fuel price up will reduce market demand for diesels and automotive companies will not provide the product. Why oil companies don’t like diesels – because they would sell 30-40% less fuel. Do you have a link to US Toyota, Nissan or Honda diesel?

George.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

They surely do. ...........

I'm not going to get into a ****ing contest with you over this. I worked in the industry for 27 years and was involved in the decision making process. If you want to banter about words like dictate, monopoly, and victim, go head.

I'm done.

[cpaharley2008]

We are really getting off topic and a little heated, let's try to remain cool and calm and to the point.

[gmw photos]

As we get more and more efficient gas engines, like the ego-boost fords, and as emissions equipment continue their negative impact on the diesels ( as far as fuel mileage and operating costs ), the gap is narrowing. To say nothing of the current cost difference in the different fuels.

I'd be interested at looking at the Mahindra truck. I have looked over their tractors pretty closely, and have to admit, they look pretty good. Worldwide, they make a LOT of tractors, so for sure, they are not just some new kid on the block.

As for a diesel in a Nissan....the V6 is supposed to be pretty sweet. 400 ft-lbs in a Frontier is a pretty good combo. Their diesels were developed by Renault. Say what you want about the french company....but they do know a thing or two about turbo diesels.

[cpaharley2008]

I believe Renault provided the diesel for my 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, turbo 4 cyl that pulled like a v-6. But the emission standards killed it.

[Ken C]

Toyota now has a pick-up competitor
Volkswagen Amarok 2.0 TDI Review | Autocar

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I believe Renault provided the diesel for my 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, turbo 4 cyl that pulled like a v-6. But the emission standards killed it.

Actually, that engine was made by an Italian company called VM Motori. At the time, they were owned by DaimlerChrysler. Now they are owned by GM/Fiat. They've been making Diesel engines since the 1940s.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Toyota now has a pick-up competitor
Volkswagen Amarok 2.0 TDI Review | Autocar

Yes, Toyota has competition from VW, in Europe.

The reality is that Toyota has competition from several other manufacturers, in every market. There's nothing special in that sense about Volkswagen, although it is a huge company and a force to be considered in any market they enter.

There is a fantasy that VW will sell the Amarok TDI in North America; however

• Does any one know of any plausible report that the Amarok will ever be sold in North America? VWoA (Volkswagen of American, VW.com) doesn't even mention the Amarok in their website.
• Is there any reason to expect that even if the Amarok were to be sold here, that it would be available as a diesel? Most vehicles which are sold here by manufacturers based elsewhere (and probably every commercial vehicle, pickup truck and practical sedan sold elsewhere) are available as a diesel elsewhere, but few of them are here. Remember all the misguided excitement about the VW Tiguan when it was about to come here? No, you can't buy a Tiguan TDI here.

The second point is the reason for this whole thread - the promise of a diesel for North America, in a vehicle which would otherwise be of no special interest, and which would be available routinely as a diesel in most of the world.