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11-06-2018, 03:51 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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Mirror Extensions
Hi. I have a 2005 toyota matrix xr. I want to tow a scamp 13'. Would it be legal to tow the scamp without extension mirrors in California? If yes, are there any recommendations on which ones to buy? Thank you.
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11-06-2018, 04:17 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHP
Hi. I have a 2005 toyota matrix xr. I want to tow a scamp 13'. Would it be legal to tow the scamp without extension mirrors in California? If yes, are there any recommendations on which ones to buy? Thank you.
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That depends on the trailer width and the tow width and if can or will travel so you can see through the trailer. 200' behind the trailer seems to the point where it become legal or not. Here's the AAA tow law concerning mirrors in CA.
"California Trailer Mirrors
A motor vehicle towing a vehicle or trailer must be equipped with mirrors on both the left and right side which provide a view of at least 200 feet of the highway."
I believe that is interpreted as at least 200' behind the trailer and then as you can see.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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11-06-2018, 04:23 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHP
Hi. I have a 2005 toyota matrix xr. I want to tow a scamp 13'. Would it be legal to tow the scamp without extension mirrors in California? If yes, are there any recommendations on which ones to buy? Thank you.
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As far as type of mirror extension there's all kinds and you'll probably have to try a couple before you know which one will work best for you.
I'm using this type of mirror and they work well for me, maybe they wont work so well for and others.
https://www.campingworld.com/curt-ex...iew-tow-mirror
Now that we've opened that can of worms I'll they'll be a number of people more than willing to tell you exactly what you, it's what they've got.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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11-06-2018, 04:43 PM
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#4
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member
Name: J
Isle of Wight
Posts: 536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman
As far as type of mirror extension there's all kinds and you'll probably have to try a couple before you know which one will work best for you.
I'm using this type of mirror and they work well for me, maybe they wont work so well for and others.
https://www.campingworld.com/curt-ex...iew-tow-mirror
Now that we've opened that can of worms I'll they'll be a number of people more than willing to tell you exactly what you, it's what they've got.
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We like these....
https://www.amazon.com/Prime-Product.../dp/B00SQ3I03M
Jim
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11-06-2018, 04:46 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1973 Compact Jr and 1980 Bigfoot 17 ft
Posts: 1,339
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__________________
1980 Bigfoot 17' & former owner of 1973 Compact Jr
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11-06-2018, 08:30 PM
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#6
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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Hi Everyone. Thank you for responding. I ran to Uhaul, and checked out their extension mirrors. They have 2. One was not design for the long haul. Other would surely fall off while driving. Then I went over to Camping World. Talked to a couple with experience in hauling, and was told that I don't need extension mirrors. The scamp 13' is 80 inches wide. My car is 70 inches wide. That makes the scamp 5 inches wider than my car on each side. But the scamp is about 2 feet behind my car, which is 14 feet length. The mirror is about 4 feet from the front end. That puts the scamp about 12 feet behind my rear view mirrors. At that distance, the scamp doesn't block me from seeing 200 feet behind me on either adjacent lane. I have decided that I won't be needing them. Thank you all for the help.
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11-06-2018, 09:06 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
Posts: 3,738
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Good decision VP. Unless the trailer is a lot wider than the tug you're not gaining much rear side view advantage. FWIW, the 200' "behind" a trailer doesn't mean directly behind, it but a 200' distance along the sides. This topic comes up every now and then and seems to go sideways because of the misconception of behind . Pretty sure, back in the day when the rule was written, backup/rear view cameras weren't even a twinkle in someone's eye yet .
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11-06-2018, 10:54 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHP
Hi. I have a 2005 toyota matrix xr. I want to tow a scamp 13'. Would it be legal to tow the scamp without extension mirrors in California? If yes, are there any recommendations on which ones to buy? Thank you.
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Towing a Scamp13D with a 2008 Ford Escape was about equivalent to what you propose as far as rear visibility is concerned.
Over the years we have tried just about every aftermarket mirror, the rubbermount ones tend to vibrate too much.
I took a good quality bicycle mirror and modified it to work as a rock solid reliable extension mirror. It works well to exceed the standard of 200 feet, seeing much closer behind the trailer, clearly and without vibration.
Here are some pics...
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11-07-2018, 05:41 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: LiL Hauley
Syracuse, NY
Posts: 656
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Mckesh mirrors
If you get stopped and the officer sticks some number of fingers out the sides of your trailer at the rear, you better be able to count them.
I use these on my tacoma. They might be overkill for some but they are rock solid.
https://www.hensleymfg.com/products/mckesh-mirrors/
__________________
Your heirs will inherit money and stuff when you are gone. You can only save or spend money, but you can do things with stuff, so they are going to inherit stuff!
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11-07-2018, 05:49 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlD
If you get stopped and the officer sticks some number of fingers out the sides of your trailer at the rear, you better be able to count them.
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Must be a different in NY Carl. In 20 years of commercial trucking in CA, I've never had an officer pay any attention to the mirrors other than that they were on the truck .
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11-07-2018, 05:51 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler 13 ft / Casita FD
Posts: 2,038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman
That depends on the trailer width and the tow width and if can or will travel so you can see through the trailer. 200' behind the trailer seems to the point where it become legal or not. Here's the AAA tow law concerning mirrors in CA.
"California Trailer Mirrors
A motor vehicle towing a vehicle or trailer must be equipped with mirrors on both the left and right side which provide a view of at least 200 feet of the highway."
I believe that is interpreted as at least 200' behind the trailer and then as you can see.
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I think it is a great idea to use the extended mirrors and know there are laws on the books but really, how much do the enforce these laws? I imagine if there is an accident and your did not have mirrors there will be an issue but would they pull you over and issue a ticket for not having them? I doubt it.
Here in Maine, I was also told it is illegal to tow anything from the "STEP N' TOW" bumper, you see on all these trucks. But you see it all the time!
If one got down in the dirt and saw how this bumper is hooked up to frame and how thin the metal is behind this so called "TRAILER HITCH BUMPER" one wouldn't haul a childes wagon on it.
My point is, there may be a law on the books but do they enforce them. Probably not.
UNTILL SOMETHING HAPPENS
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11-07-2018, 06:12 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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200' means 200'. "Behind" means starting at the back of the trailer. What the laws do not clarify, and where the debate rages, is whether the field of view must include the lane you're in or only the adjacent lanes.
As the former is geometrically impossible with a standard 8' wide trailer and any towing mirrors that don't violate vehicle width regulations, I am of the opinion the latter was intended.
That said, a field of view that includes at least a partial view of your own lane is helpful. And since a Scamp is wider than your Matrix, your view of the adjacent lanes is somewhat obstructed, so I think mirror extensions are indicated in this case.
The elephant in the room here is your 1500# tow rating (which is based on only a driver and no cargo in the vehicle). Most Scamps weigh more than that, and most people tow with more than just a driver in the vehicle.
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11-07-2018, 07:19 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: LiL Hauley
Syracuse, NY
Posts: 656
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Dave, mirrors are a given on a truck. Non professional drivers are the biggest hazard on the road, especially when towing a trailer. How far you can see behind the trailer is a judgement call by the officer that pulls you over. Regardless, you have to be able to see all the way down the side of the trailer and the finger test is easy verification for that. The probability of being ticketed for not having proper visibility is small, however it is an important safety issue.
__________________
Your heirs will inherit money and stuff when you are gone. You can only save or spend money, but you can do things with stuff, so they are going to inherit stuff!
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11-07-2018, 08:04 AM
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#14
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
Towing a Scamp13D with a 2008 Ford Escape was about equivalent to what you propose as far as rear visibility is concerned.
Over the years we have tried just about every aftermarket mirror, the rubbermount ones tend to vibrate too much.
I took a good quality bicycle mirror and modified it to work as a rock solid reliable extension mirror. It works well to exceed the standard of 200 feet, seeing much closer behind the trailer, clearly and without vibration.
Here are some pics...
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That is a useful way of using a bicycle mirror. Your extension mirrors are great if you have a place to store the car without people running into it and breaking it off and causing damage to the car.
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11-07-2018, 08:14 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlD
If you get stopped and the officer sticks some number of fingers out the sides of your trailer at the rear, you better be able to count them.
I use these on my tacoma. They might be overkill for some but they are rock solid.
https://www.hensleymfg.com/products/mckesh-mirrors/
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Price and quality sure go hand in hand.
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11-07-2018, 08:25 AM
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#16
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ
200' means 200'. "Behind" means starting at the back of the trailer. What the laws do not clarify, and where the debate rages, is whether the field of view must include the lane you're in or only the adjacent lanes.
As the former is geometrically impossible with a standard 8' wide trailer and any towing mirrors that don't violate vehicle width regulations, I am of the opinion the latter was intended.
That said, a field of view that includes at least a partial view of your own lane is helpful. And since a Scamp is wider than your Matrix, your view of the adjacent lanes is somewhat obstructed, so I think mirror extensions are indicated in this case.
The elephant in the room here is your 1500# tow rating (which is based on only a driver and no cargo in the vehicle). Most Scamps weigh more than that, and most people tow with more than just a driver in the vehicle.
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It will only be me in my mostly empty matrix and mostly empty trailer. Just trying to get it home from 1 hour away without having to rent a uhaul truck.
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11-07-2018, 11:08 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHP
That is a useful way of using a bicycle mirror. Your extension mirrors are great if you have a place to store the car without people running into it and breaking it off and causing damage to the car.
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True, someone could break the stock mirror off when it is parked, extension or not. The extension mirror was stored in that protective bag in the bottom of the console when not in use. It takes only a matter of seconds to install or remove it.
My new one for my TC is attached by means of a large office grade paper clip like the one below...(works great and I was reluctant to drill that 1 practically invisible hole)
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11-08-2018, 05:30 PM
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#18
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Junior Member
Name: VP
Trailer: In the market
California
Posts: 10
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successful tow without extension mirrors
I towed the scamp yesterday without extension mirrors successfully. Backing up into the driveway at night was tough though. Had to enlist help to get it done.
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11-14-2018, 11:50 AM
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#19
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Junior Member
Trailer: Play Mor II
Posts: 3
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I messed around with a couple of different add-on mirrors for my Ford Ranger pulling my 13' Play-Mor II. Neither was satisfactory. I finally bought a wireless backup camera set up and wired it to the battery in the trailer. I used a modified suction cup camera mount and attached it to the rear window. I think I put the whole system together for about $50.
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11-14-2018, 04:34 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: Francois
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
Posts: 1,163
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same here Earl....
if you go looking you can find very affordable wireless back-up systems...
seeing what is DIRECTLY behind you (not just the to the sides) is a bonus and takes quite a bit of "stress" out of towing....for me anyways...wouldn't leave home without it now...
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