Most Economical TV for 13 footer (Trillium)

[Carmella in Canada]

So first of all, I would like to extend a great thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion. I had no idea there was so much to consider and I truly have learned alot. I still have a ways to go with understand mechanics and physics but on the whole, I feel better informed. Thank you again all.

Now back in August I ended up with a 2001 Mercury Cougar which I have been using to pull my Trill around. I have kept her very very light with minimal packing and removed all unnecessary weight. After several months tripping around Western US, I would likely have chosen another TV but this one, for now, is working. I don't like that it is manual which can be cumbersome during heavy traffic and have avoiding towing my Trillium around the hills of San Francisco. I think I will end up *upgrading* at some point but I will admit that unhooking the Trill from my hot red sports car and speeding up and down coastal Highway 1 has been one of the highlights of my trip.

Again, thank you so much for the support. I love this community.

[floyd]

[QUOTE=Kip in Ga.;227992]

Originally Posted by floyd

Floyd,
Not disputing you. Apparently I don't fully understand or we have different definitions of unibody.
My wifes RAV4 has unibody and everything under there appears to be stamped, formed, and welded sheet metal. As did my 03 Pilot, and her CR-V

The G20 has a serious frame that "Appears" to be supporting the body!

Kip

The g20's driveline components are attached directly to the unitized floor of the body, It has a Unitized body/chassis... thus "Unibody".
In "body on frame" construction, the body is bolted to the frame, the frame/chassis is separate and the body can actually be removed. These are generally accepted definitions, not just mine.
Here is generally what "body on frame" construction looks like without the body...

[mcbrew]

To Brian B-P: Apparently your inbox is full, so I couldn't respond to your private message. Apparently you have not run into any cars that have different towing capacities between the US and Canada. The VW "A" chassis, third and fourth generation would be good examples. Certainly this would not apply to all cars, just as you won't always find a difference between European and US ratings.

And, in case you didn't get the other message, the Astro van does indeed have a unitized body. There is a subframe for the engine and front suspension bits. There is what looks like a frame, but it is technically a unibody, just like my Sprinter van.

[Kip in Ga.]

[QUOTE=floyd;228009]

Originally Posted by Kip in Ga.

The g20's driveline components are attached directly to the unitized floor of the body, It has a Unitized body/chassis... thus "Unibody".
In "body on frame" construction, the body is bolted to the frame, the frame/chassis is separate and the body can actually be removed. These are generally accepted definitions, not just mine.
Here is generally what "body on frame" construction looks like without the body...

Floyd,

Yes I'm familiar with body on frame. And we have the same definition of Unibody. Been messin with cars and trucks since about 1956 and driving since 1958. First car was a 39 Ford Coupe. Floor board was so rusted out that some reinforcements were required.

It is simply mind boggling that as much time spent under G20, that
the lack of typical body on frame attachment points have gone unnoticed. I've personally had darn near everything under her either loose, off, added to, or replaced over the years. But never had the need to look for body/frame attachment points.

Thanks,
Kip

[Kip in Ga.]

Brian B-C,

My reply to your PM would not go through either. Thanks for the personal message.

Kip

[Kip in Ga.]

"
"Before you hook up a camper to your tow vehicle, make sure your vehicle is rated for towing. Your owner's manual should have a section that tells you how heavy -- and in some cases how large -- a load the vehicle can tow safely. Don't exceed that limit -- should something go wrong, you might not be able to claim your insurance."

HowStuffWorks "Camper Towing Tips"

" If the trailer is properly equipped, it can perform safely under a variety of driving conditions. The tow vehicle should also have enough performance to climb mountain grades without excessive loss of speed."

Note: with my 13%- 15% margin of error, it still was not enough to compensate for the very steep hills where we got into peril. These were 2 lane roads with very little shoulder and no slow lanes. Slowing to 10mph was an excessive loss of speed in my opinion. I'll stick with the 30% minimum cushion.
Kip

RV Towing Tips

2) Be A Weight Watcher

Too many towing trailers forget to check the weights of the trailer and towing vehicle before setting out on a trip. The consequences of disregarding trailer and towed weight can be legally devastating. As the driver of the towing vehicle, it’s your responsibility to make sure the vehicle and trailer are within the vehicle/trailer manufacturer’s weight and setup guidelines or you are libel for anything that happens while in transit. Think about that for a moment.

TRAILER TOWING TIPS | Pro Pickup

[floyd]

[QUOTE=Kip in Ga.;228054]

Originally Posted by floyd

Floyd,

Yes I'm familiar with body on frame. And we have the same definition of Unibody. Been messin with cars and trucks since about 1956 and driving since 1958. First car was a 39 Ford Coupe. Floor board was so rusted out that some reinforcements were required.

It is simply mind boggling that as much time spent under G20, that
the lack of typical body on frame attachment points have gone unnoticed. I've personally had darn near everything under her either loose, off, added to, or replaced over the years. But never had the need to look for body/frame attachment points.

Thanks,
Kip

You are not the only one! We serviced these things in our fleet, and my boss refused to believe it until I lifted one and showed it to him.
As you now... It was built strong enough for sure anyway.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Kip in Ga.

"
"Before you hook up a camper to your tow vehicle, make sure your vehicle is rated for towing. Your owner's manual should have a section that tells you how heavy -- and in some cases how large -- a load the vehicle can tow safely. Don't exceed that limit -- should something go wrong, you might not be able to claim your insurance."

HowStuffWorks "Camper Towing Tips"

" If the trailer is properly equipped, it can perform safely under a variety of driving conditions. The tow vehicle should also have enough performance to climb mountain grades without excessive loss of speed."

Note: with my 13%- 15% margin of error, it still was not enough to compensate for the very steep hills where we got into peril. These were 2 lane roads with very little shoulder and no slow lanes. Slowing to 10mph was an excessive loss of speed in my opinion. I'll stick with the 30% minimum cushion.
Kip

RV Towing Tips

2) Be A Weight Watcher

Too many towing trailers forget to check the weights of the trailer and towing vehicle before setting out on a trip. The consequences of disregarding trailer and towed weight can be legally devastating. As the driver of the towing vehicle, it’s your responsibility to make sure the vehicle and trailer are within the vehicle/trailer manufacturer’s weight and setup guidelines or you are libel for anything that happens while in transit. Think about that for a moment.

TRAILER TOWING TIPS | Pro Pickup

Did you mean " Liable"? [LOL]

Maybe not??

Don't worry... be happy!

[Carol H]

McBrew wrote: "Apparently you have not run into any cars that have different towing capacities between the US and Canada. The VW "A" chassis, third and fourth generation would be good examples. Certainly this would not apply to all cars, just as you won't always find a difference between European and US ratings."

I think you need to be careful in this regard as there may be differences in how the car is actually built from one plant to another in NA. I know that at some plants on both sides of the border they only put the parts imported by the maker together - in another NA plant they may actually be making some of the components. They may also be putting different basic options on the same model car on either side of the border - I know Subaru does that. The tow limits from one model of Subaru are different even though the major components of the car are the same and it changes year to year.

Even if you know the cars are identical I personally think there is only one thing I can take away from knowing that its rated much higher in another country (in the case of the Subaru all the Outback models have higher tow rates in Australia than in NA). And that’s the piece of mind in knowing that it is a pretty good bet that its very capable of safely tow the lower limit that you are restricted to in your own country.
It all comes back to the simple fact that if you tow over the cap and have an accident the fact the car can legally tow more in another country is not going to change your liablity.

[Cyndi B.]

My Tundra naked.

[Pam Garlow]

Originally Posted by Cyndi B.

My Tundra naked.

Um, Cyndi, can you clarify ?
I seem to be missing the meaning of your statement?

[Cyndi B.]

I was referring to the picture of the Tundra frame posted by Floyd. We are proud owners of the all new 2007 Tundra that we have had to replace the front end differential - already. That Big Girl and the Scamp will be together for a long time.

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by floyd

Did you mean " Liable"? [LOL]

Maybe not??

Don't worry... be happy!

Hmmmm...!
Heck, I don't know. I just cut and pasted those thingies from the links below them. My command of spelling and big words, like Liable, leaves a lot to be desired.

Must have forgotten to take the Ginko today.

Kip

[mcbrew]

It is interesting, and truly sad, that many people here have mentioned being "legally liable" and the possibility of a situation being "legally devastating." I would primarily be concerned with the safety of the people in my car and those in other cars. Second, I would be concerned with property damage -- my car, my trailer, cars around me, etc. I have learned not to be too concerned with being legally liable, because anyone can be sued for just about anything in this country these days. Experience has also taught me that what happens in a court room has NO bearing on what happened in real life. Those at fault do not necessarily pay for what they have done, and those who are innocent are often blamed for what they have not done. It would take far too much energy to worry about this all the time. I am worried primarily about the first two things I mentioned... and I do not believe that I am endangering life, limb, or property any more than anyone else does on a daily basis -- probably less.

There are people who SHOULDN'T be towing... or driving at all, for that matter. I do not believe I am one of them. I have had one at-fault accident in my life, and it was when I fell asleep at the wheel when I was 16. It was completely my fault, and nobody got hurt (except for a bump to my own head and a total loss of a car). My own stupid fault for not knowing how tired was TOO tired. I rarely speed (well, rarely more than 5 over), and I have a pretty good grasp of the physics involved when controlling (or losing control of) an automobile.

[Cyndi B.]

I make no amends about what I tow with nor do I defend it's gas mileage. They are married for along time and they are both fully paid for. PHHHH!

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by Cyndi B.

I was referring to the picture of the Tundra frame posted by Floyd. We are proud owners of the all new 2007 Tundra that we have had to replace the front end differential - already. That Big Girl and the Scamp will be together for a long time.

Cyndi,

How is the Tundra equipped? Assuming it has 4 wheel drive. Looks to be a 4 door. What engine and tranny?

Thanks,
Kip

[Carol H]

Mcbrew wrote:" Experience has also taught me that what happens in a court room has NO bearing on what happened in real life. Those at fault do not necessarily pay for what they have done, and those who are innocent are often blamed for what they have not done."

Thats basically my point! Even if you were not the real cause of what happens someone looking to aim the blame elsewhere is going to lock onto the fact the trailer is over weight for the tow and they will make a deal out of it. Why give them the opening?