Motor Trends Truck of the Year

[Rene]

I also agree with Dave and Jonny. In fact if you go to a dealership go around the back to where they store the vehicles waiting for repairs. You will see pretty quick just how much those gleaming pickups out front turn into manifestations of the crap they really are within just a few short years. We use pickups almost every day here working in the resource industries. We use our half ton chevy to haul our trailer and get firewood. We find out the hard way that car dealers bluster is BS. We prefer to buy secondhand because by then the worst offenders have revealed themselves and we don't have to pay for them. As far as the ecoboost F150 goes it sounds pretty good but I am unwilling to pay the price at this point. I am disappointed that it does NOT offer better fuel economy as well as towing power. I don't see why we cannot have both. Meanwhile I plan to replace my chevy with a second hand dodge cummins that is already proven and affordable.

[BCDave]

I agree 100% with Rene on the "always buy a used one" idea.

The Ecoboost engine has been on the market for a few months. When it has been out there, in the real world for 5 years, lets have another look at it. It may very well be the greatest engine since the small block Chevy, or it may be the feature article in every single issue of Lemon Aid. How will we know at this point?

The GM/Isuzu Duramax Disease-el was supposed to be greatest engine ever built when it appeared in 2001. After a few years, it became apparent that building it with the injectors INSIDE the valve covers was a really DUMB idea as the injectors sprang leaks and poured fuel into the engine oil, destroying the engine. This only became apparent after 3 years. So, in 2004, GM brought out the 'series 2' version of the Duramax coded as the LB7. The LB7s, after a couple of years in service, began to overheat, warping the cyl heads.

So, in 2006, they brought out the series 3 D-max, coded as the LBZ. Apparently no one has yet found the weak point on that version as no-one has been able to break one. (I am being a bit facetious here!) Guys are drag-racing them with 2 over-sized turbos and propane injection added, producing well over 2,000 horsepower, without hurting the engine or the transmissions.

Then smog laws required yet another redesign for 2007 and power dropped off, etc.

I am looking for a 2006, LBZ-coded one.

As far as buying a new anything - are you a multi-millionaire? Can you afford to just take 50% of the purchase price and burn it to start your BBQ? Check around - see what ones are holding the most value after 3 years, and after 5 years (or 10 years for that matter) Those are the ones that market says are most reliable.

In my whole life I have only ever bought 2 cars brand new, and regretted BOTH purchases. I have only ever had "grief" with one of the many, many cars I bought used.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Johnny B

Never really into trucks much, I went to a Monster Truck show that had a mud bog. As they ran the different brands of trucks through the obstacle people screamed vile insults at the brand of truck they disliked, and their owners. Each brand had its own detractors.

I took a Ford '04 F-150 on a planned year-long tour of the United States. What happened to me with that truck was nothing short of a nightmare. Half-way through lost the motor because of a tune-up. A friend gave me an old '04 Chevy Suburban that ran great the rest of the way and required almost no repairs. I still drive it 2 years later.

I am not foolish enough to jump into an argument about trucks. Learned my lesson at the Monster Truck show.

The proof is in the pudding. All new trucks look and drive great. For me the question is, what happens down the road? And when bad things happen like they do to every brand now and then, how is it handled? Think carefully about Ford. Search on the internet about potential problems and how they are handled.

Here's a video I shot about the terrible spark plug design on the '04 F150 that didn't show up until it was time for the first tune-up. Ford had no interest whatsoever in helping us. Period.

Caveat emptor...

Or buy the tool ($108) and have them out in 15 minutes, I have never seen one with 4 stuck plugs,but if one can stick, I suppose it could happen to 4. It must be said though that the 4.6 Ford is the most common engine in taxis, pickups and squad cars for 20 years with an absolutely incredible service record. The plugs are easy access but a stuck plug should not be approached without the tool.
I actually have seen MUCH worse. Like engines which require intake removal to change plugs, or motor mount removal with the need to rotate the engine. Or some that just seem to require a three-handed ambidextrous contortionist!
I can't prove this, but regular use of Pro-Gard fuel injection cleaner would likely be a prophylactic measure, It absolutely keeps injectors, intake valves and pistons clean. While I have serviced oversized trucks and cars, I don't own them. But with Pro-Gard I have yet to replace an injector, and my plugs look perfect with 100,000 mile change intervals. The stuff is very aggressive against amine build up, which is the main cause of stuck injectors.

[BC Paul]

The Ecoboost in the F150 has been out for well over a year with very few, if any, common problems. But who knows, maybe it will be a dud. Mine hasn't missed a beat in 24 000 km with over 10k of them towing. I also didn't fall for the hype over it's fantastic fuel mileage. It's comparable to the Tacoma it replaced as far as fuel mileage but has a much better torque curve. I'm not aware of any gas truck engine that has torque numbers that this engine has at such a low rpm. Unless you've towed with one it would be hard to say that it does not offer better towing power. It's obviously not a diesel but it pulls like one.
I agree that all the truck manufacturers have or have had issues. From Ford's 5.4 sparkplug issue (Floyd is right, buy the right tool) to Dodge's "death wobble" in 3/4 and 1 ton models, Chevy's 5.3 cylinder deactivation that destroyed the engine requiring a complete rebuild, questionable frame strength on the Tundra and it goes on and on and on!!!
I needed a crewcab 4x4 with a 6.5ft box and the Ford was it. I am by no means a "Ford guy". I don't care what brand I drive as long as it suits my needs and right now the F150 is it.

[Mike Magee]

In contrast to BCDave, I only ever bought 2 used vehicles in my lifetime, and strongly regretted both. A 12 year old Mercury Grand Marquis that was costing me more in repairs than a new car payment (which I subsequently traded for a new car payment!) and a 7-8 year old F150 5.4L bi-fuel pickup that blew 3 spark plugs and cost as much in repairs as I had paid for the truck.

No, I can't see buying someone else's mistake. If they are getting rid of it, chances are there is a good reason! I prefer to buy new and run the thing for a couple hundred thousand miles. That way I know the repair history.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

In contrast to BCDave, I only ever bought 2 used vehicles in my lifetime, and strongly regretted both. A 12 year old Mercury Grand Marquis that was costing me more in repairs than a new car payment (which I subsequently traded for a new car payment!) and a 7-8 year old F150 5.4L bi-fuel pickup that blew 3 spark plugs and cost as much in repairs as I had paid for the truck.

No, I can't see buying someone else's mistake. If they are getting rid of it, chances are there is a good reason! I prefer to buy new and run the thing for a couple hundred thousand miles. That way I know the repair history.

I went searching for a new truck because my old used truck would cost more to repair then its blue book value and I had already stuck more into it than what I originally paid for the truck .I originally looked at used trucks but I could buy a brand new loaded 2011 Ford Ranger for less than a 4 or 5 year old F150 with 60,000 miles and rust holes . I checked 5 dealers and fairly new used trucks were going for $17000 to $20000 ,I only paid slightly more for my 2011 brand new truck

[WildBirder]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I went searching for a new truck because my old used truck would cost more to repair then its blue book value and I had already stuck more into it than what I originally paid for the truck .I originally looked at used trucks but I could buy a brand new loaded 2011 Ford Ranger for less than a 4 or 5 year old F150 with 60,000 miles and rust holes . I checked 5 dealers and fairly new used trucks were going for $17000 to $20000 ,I only paid slightly more for my 2011 brand new truck

The resent crash of the auto industry has had a trickle down effect to used vehicles. No one bought new cars therefor less used ones hit the market. That and more consumers are looking at purchasing used cars. I've read a few articles that mention used car prices are at a 16 year high and expect to pay 20 to 30% more. Dealers are having a hard time finding quality used cars. Here in Canada I can attest that we are on the 30% or more side and the quality is very poor. Like you mentioned, high kilometres and full of rust yet hardly cheap. Many people are heading south to buy used and then importing and are still saving money.
I started shopping for an egg and a tug at the same time with a set budget. I never thought finding the tug would be the harder of the two. My budget has expanded Searching daily, wish me luck.

[Ray N]

For reasons stated above, Clark Howard, (the financial advice guy), said that for the first time, some new vehicles are now better buys than used ones. As I have done with my last two vehicle purchases, Clark Howard recommends using Overstock.com and have dealers bid for your business. Using overstock.com I saved over $2000 on an identical truck to what my local dealer offered. I did have to travel nearly an hour to get it, but I figure that was well worth $2000.

[cpaharley2008]

It's interesting as we attempt to get the most for our money, we start losing something else, our time. I have noticed at my Chrysler dealer when I take in my Dodge vehicle that was purchased there, I'm in and out within an hour. However when I return to the same dealer with my Jeep, which had not been purchased there, it takes twice the amount of time. Maybe it is my imagination but has anyone else had the same feeling/observation?
Hmm, maybe I should contact the dealership? Then it will take 3 times the amount of time!

[Ray N]

Unlike years ago, (how many, I don't know), dealers now get paid the same for warranty work as for non-warranty work. They are now more than happy to accept vehicles bought somewhere else. (At least that's what I've been told.)

[Doc Sarvis]

Originally Posted by Ray N

Unlike years ago, (how many, I don't know), dealers now get paid the same for warranty work as for non-warranty work. They are now more than happy to accept vehicles bought somewhere else. (At least that's what I've been told.)

I cannot vouch for how Ford does business, but having worked at a Volvo/Subuaru service department recently I can say that statement is not true for those two companies. Volvo and Subaru both pay substantially less for warranty work than dealerships charge for non-warranty work.

Despite that, the service manager where I worked is happy to take in warranty work from people who bought their vehicles elsewhere. He gets paid salary plus bonuses, and warranty work helps the bottom line.

[cpaharley2008]

I'm sure they get paid the same for warranty work, but it seems that it took them longer to change the oil (which was the first time for this vehicle, it has 1 year and 1900 miles on it) I sat there for 2 hours for my Jeep and I'm in/out in less than one hour with my truck.
This maybe just my perception. Hmm, maybe I should change my mouthwash or after shave!!

[Doc Sarvis]

Or maybe they were just busier when you brought in your Jeep.

[honda03842]

In 7 years I have only had an oil change once at the dealership. First we're often on the road. Second, I virtually always go for the '10 minute' oil change.

[cpaharley2008]

This is a little off topic but I can tell you a horror story about the Jiffy Lube experience. They seem to be paid on # changes and they take short cuts, like adjustable wrenches to remove the oil plug. I took my old CRD Liberty to one and then 5000 miles later back to my selling dealer who told me that my oil plug was stripped and because I have an aluminum pan it would need to be replaced. total cost $1500?
Needless to say I contacted Jiffy Lube and they did cover the damages while admitting that their employee did not use the correct tools. For ease of mind, another $20 paid at the dealer is worth it to me, if they break it, they fix it.

[Doc Sarvis]

Working at the aforementioned dealership service department for two years I saw many horror stories resulting from people trying to save a few dollars. One local discount repair shop filled Subaru crankcases with tranny fluid and the transmissions with motor oil on at least two separate occasions. A retail electronics chain's stereo installer cut the fiber optic cables on a Volvo XC90. The worst, though, was a discount brake shop. After installing new front pads on a Volvo the technician forgot to tighten the caliper bolts. The right front caliper fell off on a flyover to I-35. No one was injured, but the car suffered extensive body damage.

I have received excellent service at Ford dealers from Hollister, CA to Manor, TX, and plan to take my F150 to Ford dealers for service. I'll take my chances with factory trained technicians over entry level techs.

[honda03842]

There are always horror stories.

I don't get my changes at quick lubes because I'm necessarily trying to say money but rather save time. One or two hours at a dealership for each oil change over the life of a car amounts to 40-80 hours I can't be on the road or doing .....

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis

I have received excellent service at dealers from Hollister, CA to Manor, TX, and plan to take my F150 to Ford dealers for service. I'll take my chances with factory trained technicians over entry level techs.

You are assuming that the stealership uses Factory - trained techs.

In all my years of being involved in the automotive hobby, I have yet to meet a "factory-trained tech". Most are "learn-on-the-job" techs, straight out of tech school. Many have not bothered with the "tech school" step.

"Factory training" consists of local reps making the rounds of stealerships to point out to maximize the profits from "this repair" or "that one" and how to minimize costs if the same repair happens to be under warranty.

Having said that, an "inspired brain surgeon" at a 10-minute oil joint cost me an engine by installing the drain plug with a "rattle wrench" totally stripping the threads, causing the oil to all leak out and writing off my engine. (no cost to me, thanks to a lawyer's letter to the head office of the oil change company.)

However, I have also witnessed first hand, the "factory-trained techs" at a major Stealership using a rattle wrench for that purpose as well.


" One or two hours at a dealership for each oil change over the life of a car amounts to 40-80 hours I can't be on the road or doing ..... __________________
Norm and Ginny"

80 hours at 2 hours each is 40 oil changes. Must be nice to be able to afford to trade a car in that often!

By my maint schedule, 40 oil changes comes to only about 120,000 miles. At that point I start to consider a car to be nearly broken in and almost ready to be used for some more serious duties, like trailer towing!

[Doc Sarvis]

Originally Posted by BCDave

You are assuming that the stealership uses Factory - trained techs.

In all my years of being involved in the automotive hobby, I have yet to meet a "factory-trained tech". Most are "learn-on-the-job" techs, straight out of tech school. Many have not bothered with the "tech school" step.

"Factory training" consists of local reps making the rounds of stealerships to point out to maximize the profits from "this repair" or "that one" and how to minimize costs if the same repair happens to be under warranty.

I know that Subuaru and Volvo require dealership's technicians be graduates of a two-year technical training program, and both companies require each technician to attend week-long training seminars regularly. A simple Google search revealed Ford has similar requirements.

[steve dunham]

When I was working, all of us with company vehicles were issued credit cards for a large oil change outfit . After loosing two engines to overfilling them with oil , we went back to using a dealer. I personally had one experience were they forgot to install the oil filter and two times they put 10 quarts in my 5 qt engine.
The people working at the oil change outfits in my area are mostly high school kids working part time and I have witnesses their grease gun fights. The dealer seems to have a level of professionalism not found at the quick change places