New 17' Bigfoot - Questions on axle

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by WaltP

A spring over conversion raises the trailer but not the axle. It helps protect the plumbing but still leaves the overall ground clearance too low in my opinion. I did the spring over conversion first but when I recognized the above results I went to the straight axle.

Walt

You're right, Walt. it wouldn't give the axle any more ground clearance, but the OP's issue is that the tire is rubbing on the inside of the wheel well, so it would raise the trailer high enough to give him the clearance he needs for the wheel in the wheel well. It would make the trailer usable without any cost, and give him time to evaluate his other options while still using the trailer.

[ZachO]

Ok thanks! Glad to hear it's a normal thing with Bigfoots (I guess), but it definitely makes me lean more towards doing some kind of work sooner instead of later. I'll look close under there once things dry out a little more.

I'm going to look into what a Dexter axle costs. At least with that I could do all the work, since there would be no welding. I'd get a complete axle with brakes, springs and hubs.

I'm also in the middle of looking at tires, and as you all know, there just aren't good tires in the 14" wheel size. I mean some have good reviews, but for every two or three good reviews there's someone who had them separate or blow out in 5,000 miles. But then I know there's nothing like a blowout to cause you to come write a bad review, where if you just expect the tires to work well, and they work well, you don't usually come back to write a review.

But still...15" wheels would be nice. We'll see. If I can get away with the axle flip for now I'll do it, but depending on the price and the amount of work involved...almost seems like no more work to do a full axle swap, though I know it'll cost a bit more. I'll start pricing stuff out on Tuesday. I don't want to do a lot of work a spend a few hundred dollars on what might be only a temporary solution.

[ZachO]

Francois, where did you order your springs? Guess it may have been on your side of the border so probably not the same place I'll order mine...

I like the idea of more clearance (axle and all), and I like the idea of a brand new axle with new brakes and wheel bearings. But also, though I'll be traveling a lot of rough roads like you, I don't think I'll take it down a lot of roads with rocks taller than the axle height. So this option might work for me.

Though looking at it, it kind of doesn't surprise me that a leaf broke. Doesn't it seem like the axle flip puts a lot more stress on the springs? Looks like new springs would be a good idea if I did the flip, or I'd have a broken one pretty soon.

[ZachO]

Also:

Is the lift amount the same between both methods? Or does one give more? To be honest, even though I know I'll appreciate the extra height even just going through big dips between parking lots and streets, I like how low it sits and know I'll get worse gas mileage once it's higher up.

But if it's the same amount of lift or close to the same, then that doesn't have to factor into my choice.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I'm going to look into what a Dexter axle costs. At least with that I could do all the work, since there would be no welding. I'd get a complete axle with brakes, springs and hubs.

I'm also in the middle of looking at tires, and as you all know, there just aren't good tires in the 14" wheel size. I mean some have good reviews, but for every two or three good reviews there's someone who had them separate or blow out in 5,000 miles. But then I know there's nothing like a blowout to cause you to come write a bad review, where if you just expect the tires to work well, and they work well, you don't usually come back to write a review.

But still...15" wheels would be nice. We'll see. If I can get away with the axle flip for now I'll do it, but depending on the price and the amount of work involved...almost seems like no more work to do a full axle swap, though I know it'll cost a bit more. I'll start pricing stuff out on Tuesday. I don't want to do a lot of work a spend a few hundred dollars on what might be only a temporary solution.

Actually, were it me, I'd leave it leaf spring/axle rather than go to a rubber torsion axle. There's a fair amount of work involved in changing it over. If the spring shackle mounts on the frame are good, replacing springs is easy. And frankly doing the spring-over mod isn't difficult at all. If your brakes, bearings, and spindles are good, unless you need the ground clearance, replacing a perfectly good axle is a waste of money.

Most tire failures (blow-outs) happen because of under-inflation. The sidewall heats up from flex and eventually fails. Unfortunately, with all of the stories of sidewall failure, there are very few folks who actually check their tire pressures regularly enough (like daily) to know when their tires are at risk. The thing that causes low tire pressure more often than any other issues are bad and leaking valve stems. And they don't always get changed with every tire mounting as they should. And even when they do, it's entirely possible that you'll still end up with one of the millions of defective Chinese stems that hit the market a few years ago. I decided years ago to go with solid valve stems instead of the rubber pull-throughs.

"Bad tires" have been blamed for many flats/blowouts that were caused by defective or leaking valve stems or tire under-inflation (user error.)

Originally Posted by ZachO

Though looking at it, it kind of doesn't surprise me that a leaf broke. Doesn't it seem like the axle flip puts a lot more stress on the springs? Looks like new springs would be a good idea if I did the flip, or I'd have a broken one pretty soon.

Doing the spring-over mod doesn't increase the stress on the springs at all. Leaf springs just fatigue like any other metal part that flexes. They have a design life and once they've met that, they crack. That's normal.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Also:

Is the lift amount the same between both methods? Or does one give more? To be honest, even though I know I'll appreciate the extra height even just going through big dips between parking lots and streets, I like how low it sits and know I'll get worse gas mileage once it's higher up.

But if it's the same amount of lift or close to the same, then that doesn't have to factor into my choice.

Both methods? I'm not sure what you're asking, but you can raise both the axle height and trailer height by varying amounts by design depending on what axle you buy, and you can accomplish that with either a rubber torsion or leaf spring axle using spacers, shackles of varying length, and/or dropped or raised axles. If that's what you're asking?

And your gas mileage shouldn't be a factor you need to worry about. It won't be affected noticeably by the three to six inches you'll be raising the top of the trailer.

[ZachO]

Thank you Roger.

The replacement axles I'm looking at are leaf spring axles, sprung under, but a straight axle.

So I'm wondering what the difference in lift would be between springing over my current drop axle, or going with a sprung under straight axle.

[Jack L]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Thank you Roger.

The replacement axles I'm looking at are leaf spring axles, sprung under, but a straight axle.

So I'm wondering what the difference in lift would be between springing over my current drop axle, or going with a sprung under straight axle.

About the same. The straight axle gives you 4" more ground clearance (distance from driving surface to bottom of axle tube.) but the lift on the frame ', body and plumbing works out to be 4'' with either change. I changed to 225-75-15 tires and new wheels and picked up another inch of lift and ground clearance.

[ZachO]

Ok, thanks. So I would likely be able to upgrade to a 15" wheel with just the axle flip, then?

[Tom Trostel]

Best 14" tire choices, IMHO, are as follows; Kumho 857, Maxxis UE 168, Hankook RA 08. None of these are ST tires. I have had Kumho on my 1980 for 5 years with zero problems.

[Jack L]

15 inch wheels will fit with either change. When I changed my axle I went t a large Dexter distributor that sells to smaller dealers and repair shops. They had lots of axles in stock (hundreds) and 2 years ago, I paid less than $100 for the axle and about $50 for new u bolts and spring plates. I think the slight additional cost was well worth the money. This is something you only want to do one time. To mount your existing axle under the springs you would need to buy new perches and have them welded on and new mounting hardware would be a good idea also. The cost savings is small. You can get an EZ lube axle upgrade with a new axle. Most, if not all new Dexter axles are only available with the EZ lube feature.

[ZachO]

Doesn't Dexter make a kit that doesn't require welding?

I sent an email to Dexter, and I'm going to call the closest Dexter dealer on Tuesday. I guess there's no point in thinking too much harder on this until I have some price figures. I would prefer a new axle and brakes and bearings along with my lift, obviously. Just some peace of mind. But if the cost is too high, I'll just get my current brakes and bearings checked out, and if everything looks good there, I'll go with the spring-over.

Thanks.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by Jack L

15 inch wheels will fit with either change. When I changed my axle I went t a large Dexter distributor that sells to smaller dealers and repair shops. They had lots of axles in stock (hundreds) and 2 years ago, I paid less than $100 for the axle and about $50 for new u bolts and spring plates. I think the slight additional cost was well worth the money. This is something you only want to do one time. To mount your existing axle under the springs you would need to buy new perches and have them welded on and new mounting hardware would be a good idea also. The cost savings is small. You can get an EZ lube axle upgrade with a new axle. Most, if not all new Dexter axles are only available with the EZ lube feature.

+1

Originally Posted by ZachO

Doesn't Dexter make a kit that doesn't require welding?

I sent an email to Dexter, and I'm going to call the closest Dexter dealer on Tuesday. I guess there's no point in thinking too much harder on this until I have some price figures. I would prefer a new axle and brakes and bearings along with my lift, obviously. Just some peace of mind. But if the cost is too high, I'll just get my current brakes and bearings checked out, and if everything looks good there, I'll go with the spring-over.

Thanks.

A Dexter rubber torsion axle with brakes will run you about $1,000 installed, roughly. And yes and no to your question. they have a no-weld axle, but that's only after you have the brackets welded onto the frame... so your next Dexter axle replacement (in 15 years +/-) can be a no-weld axle.

Of course, that will require the removal of your current axle, springs and shackles, and may require the removal of the shackle mounts from the frame, depending. And you might want to do that anyway for the cosmetics of not having spring shackle mounts hanging under the frame, if you go with a torsion axle.

You need to decide how much lift you want on the body, and how much ground clearance you want UNDER the axle. THEN you can start doing the math on the axle you want to install.

There's nothing inherently wrong with 14" tires/wheels. 15s work fine too... they're typically just more expensive to replace, and the common rule of thumb is to replace your trailer tires every five years regardless of how they look or how many miles you have on them. That said, I sold my '06 Bigfoot 25 with the OE Goodyears on it last summer. But it was stored inside seven months out of each year too, so the tires didn't get the UV/ozone exposure that most do sitting outside year-round.

[ZachO]

I don't really know what the torsion axles are but I was only looking at straight axles that are otherwise just like mine: leaf spring axles.

The "no weld" thing I was asking about is just for the spring-over kit for my current axle, not for a new axle.

To be honest, I don't want much lift. I'm even considering just longer shackles to get maybe a 1" lift. More ground clearance is of course not a bad thing, but I like how it sits now. It just clearly needs more clearance over the tires.

But all I've done is drive it home on highways. So I have no clue how the current height will work once I take it camping. It seems to sit higher than the RV I was driving before.

I can probably do the installation, so what I need to get is a price for a Dexter leaf spring axle (why go "rubber torsion"? Is there a reason to go with that instead of sticking with leaf springs? I know nothing about them) with brakes. Then I can figure out what's necessary to install it, if the sticker shock isn't too bad...

[ZachO]

Just out of curiosity Roger, since you agree with Jack's post, help me understand how he got an axle and hardware for $150-ish, and thinks the savings of doing the spring-over are minimal compared to just upgrading the axle, but you say a new axle will run $1,000, installed. Unless I'm misunderstanding what he or you are actually saying. I'm clearly still pretty uneducated on this stuff.

Are the brakes just that much additional cost? Or is all that extra cost because of the installation?

I'm open to other ideas, but the three things I'm tossing around, for best results (with no specific set lift amount in mind, just wanting to clear the tires, and if I get some extra clearance along with that, cool, but maybe not necessary) and wanting to compare cost, are:

1. Just longer shackles
2. A spring-over kit. Probably the Dexter "no-weld" kit, but having a friend put a tack weld in there for extra strength
3. A straight, leaf spring axle from Dexter with brakes.

There's a possibility I'll get my brakes and bearings checked out and learn they're totally fine, which would save me money, but I'm assuming that not much has been done to this axle for the last who-knows-how-many-years, so to buy it, then start fresh with a new axle, springs, brakes and bearings sure sounds nice. But probably not if it's $1,000.

Thanks!

[WaltP]

The $1000 figure is for a torsion axle which does not use springs. I don't think you'd be interested in that. When I replaced my 4" down axle with a straight version the price was around $200, which agrees well with Jack's quote. As I said somewhere above I later added the shock absorber kit which I think was around $ 60.

Walt

[ZachO]

Ok, thanks Walt, that makes sense.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Just out of curiosity Roger, since you agree with Jack's post, help me understand how he got an axle and hardware for $150-ish, and thinks the savings of doing the spring-over are minimal compared to just upgrading the axle, but you say a new axle will run $1,000, installed. Unless I'm misunderstanding what he or you are actually saying. I'm clearly still pretty uneducated on this stuff.

Are the brakes just that much additional cost? Or is all that extra cost because of the installation?

I'm open to other ideas, but the three things I'm tossing around, for best results (with no specific set lift amount in mind, just wanting to clear the tires, and if I get some extra clearance along with that, cool, but maybe not necessary) and wanting to compare cost, are:

1. Just longer shackles
2. A spring-over kit. Probably the Dexter "no-weld" kit, but having a friend put a tack weld in there for extra strength
3. A straight, leaf spring axle from Dexter with brakes.

There's a possibility I'll get my brakes and bearings checked out and learn they're totally fine, which would save me money, but I'm assuming that not much has been done to this axle for the last who-knows-how-many-years, so to buy it, then start fresh with a new axle, springs, brakes and bearings sure sounds nice. But probably not if it's $1,000.

Thanks!

Sorry, Zach, my bad there... when you said "Dexter," i'd (wrongly) presumed that you were talking about switching over to a Torflex axle.

Walt and Jack are correct for a standard axle setup.

[ZachO]

Great! Thanks Roger. Yeah I figured either we weren't talking about the same thing, or I just read Jack's post wrong.

I can spend that much. And since part of buying this camper is to live cheaply and not spend money on rent...since right now I'm still in "money spending mode" after buying it and have a little cash laying around, I'd like to just get it all done now.

I know unexpected things will come up, but I think getting the camper set up with a fresh axle, brakes, bearings and tires will hopefully allow a few years of very little $ input into it, until I decide I want a more steady job and have more security.

[RayBull]

Zacho, I recently purchased 1990 Bigfoot Gaucho and had to go through the same process that you are now going through. Before I purchased my Bigfoot I knew my first priority would be to replace the 26 year old original leaf springs before even looking at the trailer for purchase. I even knew in back of my mind I will most likely replace the axle and other components associated with the axle assembly ( brakes, drums & shackles etc). When I final got to inspect the trailer for purchase the trailer had sagging on the driver side of the trailer due to a failing 26 year old leaf spring. The PO flipped the dropped axle to raise the trailer about 4" but in doing so lowered the actual axle 4" closer to the ground. The lower axle height was not going to work for me since I will be towing the Bigfoot through fire roads to access my property in the Back Country of San Diego. After determining the cost of replacing just the worn component it was not worth my time and effort replacing just one thing and waiting for the other component to fail due to age. Personally my time is important to me because time is money. If you have the means I recommend doing it right the first time which will save you time and money in the long run. Forum member "trainjunkie" has a few treads posted about his axle upgrades that I used as reference. I ended up purchasing a compete Dexter EZ Lube 3" straight axle assembly with perches welded and electric brakes, hubs, leaf springs installed. I picked it up and it was bolt on ready. The installation process took about 2 hrs from removal to installing the new axle assembly and new wet shackles. Below is what it cost me to do the upgrade in Southern California. I ordered and purchased the 3" straight axle from Redneck trailer parts. It was a special order due to the size. It took 2 week.

1 Dexter 3500# EZ lube 3" axle assembly with electric brakes. $399.00
Part# 35ah54e-st-EZ 85x66
2 1750# double eye leaf springs with u-bolt kit. $79.00
1 dexler wet shackle kit. $54.00
Part# K71-358-00