New Ford Hybrid, is it a TV? - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #1
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New Ford Hybrid, is it a TV?

Ford is selling a gas/electric hybrid SUV/crossover called the C-Max. It has 188 total Horsepower, so I am assuming it can tow. But Ford doesn't list this info on their Web site. Any ideas?

It would be nice to have the estimated 47MPG when not towing.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:00 PM   #2
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Are you willing to spend the higher initial cost and wait around 17 years to break even on that cost based on the higher mpg? Not me but it's your money. You can spend it however you want. Horsepower has little to do with towing ability. Torque is the figure for that. HP relates to acceleration.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #3
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I really don't think this is a viable tow vehicle. I have a hybrid Escape and it is rated for just 1000#, though I tow a 13 footer that is about 1500#.

The limitation of the Escape hybrid is sustained grade climbing ability.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #4
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Are you willing to spend the higher initial cost and wait around 17 years to break even on that cost based on the higher mpg? Not me but it's your money. You can spend it however you want. Horsepower has little to do with towing ability. Torque is the figure for that. HP relates to acceleration.
At about $25,000 it is comparable to the Kia or the Hyundai which only get 21-27MPG with the 4cyl 170HP engine. The Ford's CVT with primary electric drive will generate 129ftlbs of torque. The Kia Sportage 4cyl will do 168ftlbs.

How much torque is required for a 1000lb Scamp?
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:02 PM   #5
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It's not really about how much torque. The more you have the easier the tow will be.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #6
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Just talked to a Ford dealer. They say Ford does not recommend towing with the C-Max
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:36 PM   #7
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Just talked to a Ford dealer. They say Ford does not recommend towing with the C-Max
Take a look at the Escape with the EcoBoost engine. Up to 3500# towing and good mileage to boot.

While I have enjoyed my hybrid, I don't think I'll be buying another hybrid. The upside is great fuel economy, the downside is that you are buying a vehicle that almost no one knows how to repair, even at a dealership. Reliability has been good, but I know that if the instrument panel lights up when I'm in the middle of nowhere, I'm kind of hosed.

Now that Ford has introduced the EcoBoost engines in the Escape, it would be hard for me to justify the added expense and uncertainty of a hybrid for the incremental savings in gasoline.

My two cents, to give you some perspective from 5 1/2 years down the road of the initial GeeWhiz of a new hybrid.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:12 PM   #8
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Gary,

I've also considered the Ford "C" vehicles for towing.

We have spent about $4,000 on fuel towing during our 300+ days on the road this year. A good hybrid might reduce the cost gas for this year's 24,000 miles by $1,300.

We've had our tow vehicle for 8 years and extending the $1,300 savings over 8 years that would amount to about $10,000. If "C" car was $10,000 more the hybrid might be a fair deal assuming it was as reliable as our present tow vehicle.

The reliability issue is important with respect to operating cost. Of course buying a "C" hybrid car in it's first year would be against my rule of buying first year models.

One nice aspect of an electric motor is that it has high torque at start up and an electric motor can be a nice complement to a gas charging/drive engine.

The downside is that the battery capacity is low.

I guess if I wanted great mileage I'd lean towards a 4 cylinder diesel. Though I'm concerned about VW reliability, I might consider a VW diesel to tow a Scamp 13, particularly if the Scamp has it's own brakes.

I try to question owners of VW diesels when I meet them. Everyone has spoken highly of the diesel, it's abundant torque and it's great mileage but .....
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:19 PM   #9
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Norm,
You do realize that diesel fuel is about $.40 per gallon more costly or approximately 10-15% more costly. Will the initial premium as well as the fuel premium justify another 3-5 mpg towing savings?
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:14 PM   #10
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Norm,
You do realize that diesel fuel is about $.40 per gallon more costly or approximately 10-15% more costly. Will the initial premium as well as the fuel premium justify another 3-5 mpg towing savings?

Norm do you also realize that the VW TDI Clean Diesel is only rated to tow 1000lbs?? while the weights on 13" Scamps on the trailer Weights in the real world range between 1620lbs to 1950lbs.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:23 PM   #11
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I do not know VW North America tow ratings. I do know Can AM RV tows with them.

Discounting liability fears I suspect practically anything can tow a Scamp 13, particularly with Scamp 13 brakes.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #12
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You do realize that diesel fuel is about $.40 per gallon more costly or approximately 10-15% more costly. Will the initial premium as well as the fuel premium justify another 3-5 mpg towing savings?

Jim,

I do realize there's a differential in pricing between gas and diesel but I suspect the diesel mileage difference will be enough to overcome it. As well the diesel torque difference is outstanding. Potentially diesel engine life should also be better.

If I could get Honda to sell me one I'd buy a Honda disel in a minute.

Gas prices have been skyrocketing this month, just about $4.00 a gallon, doubling in the last 4 years. It could get dramatically worse in this year, depending on Iran/Israel and other potential events.

The bottom line is we want to be on the road and are considering other solutions.

I suspect that we'll just keep our Honda CRV. It's performed wonderfully averaging between 22-23 mpg while crossing more mountain passes than ever bouncing around the north west, criss crossing MT, Idaho and NV.

We have had a marvlous year, met many FRV people, just left the Scamp factory and on our way home... just the best of times for us.

Entering day 308 in a few hours.....
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #13
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Norm,
You do realize that diesel fuel is about $.40 per gallon more costly or approximately 10-15% more costly. Will the initial premium as well as the fuel premium justify another 3-5 mpg towing savings?

According to Rancilio's experience with his TDI, the savings is actually an additional 10-15mpg... and would cover $.40 of additional cost! His post is part-way down.

Need Tow Vehicle Advice
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Garycamper View Post
At about $25,000 it is comparable to the Kia or the Hyundai which only get 21-27MPG with the 4cyl 170HP engine. The Ford's CVT with primary electric drive will generate 129ftlbs of torque. The Kia Sportage 4cyl will do 168ftlbs.

How much torque is required for a 1000lb Scamp?

I want to know where that 1000lb Scamp is? Bare bones no options maybe?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:15 PM   #15
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According to Rancilio's experience with his TDI, the savings is actually an additional 10-15mpg... and would cover $.40 of additional cost! His post is part-way down.

Need Tow Vehicle Advice

LOL hopefully he is putting that money saved away in a special account to cover his legal fees

Edit to add: In fairness to Rancilio they also mentioned in their post that they were dumping stuff out of their trailer as they were surprised at how much it really weighed and in doing so they are IMO acknowledging that having an overweight trailer is not a good situation.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #16
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LOL hopefully he is putting that money saved away in a special account to cover his legal fees
True! But the comment was about mileage savings!

of course, there's probably more threads on this forum on the subject of tow ratings - than any other subject! my memory says that euro ratings for the Jetta TDI are 3500, and US are 1000? so, since he's traveling here - yes, he may want to slide a few pennies toward the legal fund.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #17
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I want to know where that 1000lb Scamp is? Bare bones no options maybe?
Bare bones is right! LOL wonder if an axle and tires are options?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:45 PM   #18
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[QUOTE=LukeP;334556my memory says that euro ratings for the Jetta TDI are 3500, and US are 1000?[/QUOTE]

Luke do you also happen to know what all the differences are in regards to what all the parts used in building the Jetta in the Europe vs those sold in the US are? Do you happen to know what the differences are in the hitches used in Europe and the attachments for them are vs those used in North America? and the legal issues behind why the hitches are different? or why different parts may have been used? If you do would you be willing to share with us where that information was obtained? Without the knowing all the differences and the factual reasons why may be likened to comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:54 PM   #19
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Diesel in WI seemed only about $0.15 a gallon more.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:44 PM   #20
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Luke do you also happen to know what all the differences are in regards to what all the parts used in building the Jetta in the Europe vs those sold in the US are? Do you happen to know what the differences are in the hitches used in Europe and the attachments for them are vs those used in North America? and the legal issues behind why the hitches are different? or why different parts may have been used? If you do would you be willing to share with us where that information was obtained? Without the knowing all the differences and the factual reasons why may be likened to comparing apples to oranges.
Nope, I don't have the details. I drive a VW (that I don't tow with!) and have friends who are VW and BMW techs - so I've listened to many a VW / European / German car discussion with people who specialize in this world. I did just search for the tow ratings on a VW forum, my memory was close to what is an apparent consensus. But just because the consensus on a VW forum is that the USA is more litigious and therefore drops ratings on it's vehicles - doesn't mean it holds up in a lawsuit here! Ironically But again, this battle has been waged many times over on this forum, and I tow with an SUV so I don't have much skin in the game! Hence, my original comment was because I remember reading the 35mpg that poster experienced with his TDI (wouldn't that be nice tho?!)
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