Night time towing

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

"Driving lights are used in conjunction with high beams and shoot the light far down the road. " not here in the lower 48, when you put on your high beams, both auxiliary driving and fog lights, factory or after market, must shut off.

I have read through the Florida Statutes and it appears they treat fog lamps under the rules for low beam headlamps and aux driving lamps under the rules of high beam headlamps, as far as beam pattern and usage.

You can have driving lamps to supplement the high beams, but they must turn off when you dip the headlamps. You can have fog lamps on with low beams, but the low beams must be on when the fog lamps or on and they must turn off when high beams are turned on.

Jason

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Yes they are a safety feature and when at 50% they are known as Daylight running lights and every car sold in Canada as well as a number of other countries requires by law that as soon as the key is turned those lights come on - no way to turn them off.

Funny enough I have had a number of cars over the years including Subaru's with this feature. The first time I took the Subaru I purchased in the USA into the dealer here to be serviced about part way through the servicing I noticed the service manager and the mechanic who was working on my car hunched over a computer and discussing an issue with my car. I went over and the mechanic explained I had a warning light on the dash he had never seen before it said DLR. I giggled and explained it had baffled me as well for a day or two until I realized it meant the Day Light Running lights were on. They had a good laugh and asked why would anyone need to know that as they are always going to be on anytime you start the car - would be better if the light came on the dash to warn you they were not working. Had to explain in the US they are actually not required thus the reason for it - still agree not a great deal of sense to having a light telling you they are on if there is no way of turning them off.

I must disagree that DRLs(or DLRs) are a safety feature.
From what I've seen they become a hazard at dusk or dawn or in inclement weather. Many drivers treat them as a substitute for headlights (which also includes taillights). In the above conditions vehicles with only DRLs are not visible to those who are overtaking them in traffic.
Ersatz safety feature at best!

[Darrell in Al]

I have to agree w Floyd, some *$$ use them as head lights, and the fact some don't have legal ones on all of the time IE: low and high beam. including the two that I had to drive past last night and then they flash back to hi beam right as they got to me. I about flipped on my Aux lights on them (4) 55W driving lights. tonight... I have 2 Aux back up lights on my jeep that can be turned on with out being in rev. makes night trailer hookup easy too.

[cpaharley2008]

"I must disagree that DDLs are a safety feature.
From what I've seen they become a hazard at dusk or dawn or in inclement weather. Many drivers treat them as a substitute for headlights (which also includes taillights). In the above conditions vehicles with only DDLs are not visible to those who are overtaking them in traffic."

Actually I kind of disagree with your disagreement. Other than dusk, your lights should be on at dawn and practically all states require your lights on in the rain, how many others do you see not following that rule. They are definitely safer in the daytime and in the rain. Perhaps a better solution would be the auto-on headlights with the DLR feature, best of both worlds. Better yet, just turn on your lights all the time, I do when towing, day or night because I want to be seen.

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Tilting the inside rear-view to shine brights back in the face of the from-the-rear Offenders is what I was taught to do- and it's still remarkably effective at getting them to dim their brights!

I knew a guy who had a rather powerful camera flash hanging from his rear view mirror. The way he explained it, if someone came up behind him with their high beams on, he would turn on the flash. If they were still there once it charged, he would remove it from the mirror, point it over his shoulder and poof.
Seemed kinda dangerous and aggressive to me.

[Glenn Baglo]

Not all that effective either, if you wanted to blind somebody. The flash duration of electronic flashes is in the thousands of a second so the eye doesn't have a chance to react. The old flash bulbs are a different story, since the flash duration was long enough for the pupils to react.

[carlkeigley]

I still liked my Aircraft Landing Lights.
But they were hard to find.

[cpaharley2008]

I leave one of these on my rear shelf, seems to help with keeping others away and the lights are kept on low beam.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by floyd

I must disagree that DDLs are a safety feature...

I agree that the phenomena Floyd describes are issues, although the relevance to Jim's auxiliary lights escapes me. This post is really just to say:
I assume you meant "DRLs", Floyd.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

By the way Francesca, the reason the new lights look brighter is that my headlights are not on, Toyota, for safety, turns on their headlights but at 50% brightness, when I turn on the lights they are as bright as the auxiliary lights.

If the wiring allows these auxiliary lights in combination with the DRLs, they are wired incorrectly. The auxiliary lights are not suitable DRLs, so they should run only with the low beams (if aimed low, like a fog), or only with the full high beams (if aimed as a driving light, as they should be), and not at all with DRL.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The newer 2013 FJ has a switch that bypass this feature.

Trivia: This DRL-defeat feature is only for U.S.-market units, as it would not be legal in Canada. We get a different switch.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I agree that the phenomena Floyd describes are issues, although the relevance to Jim's auxiliary lights escapes me. This post is really just to say:
I assume you meant "DRLs", Floyd.

Right "Daytime Running Lights" not Daytime Driving Lights".

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

In many cases if not most, by the time something is in the area lit up by the driving/fog lights it's too late to avoid. I also believe that there's a false sense of seeing better because of the better lighting close to the vehicle. What you really want to see is what's down the road with as much warning as possible.

I agree.

Daniel Stern Lighting has a good description of the use and abuse of fog lamps.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

"I must disagree that DDLs are a safety feature.
From what I've seen they become a hazard at dusk or dawn or in inclement weather. Many drivers treat them as a substitute for headlights (which also includes taillights). In the above conditions vehicles with only DDLs are not visible to those who are overtaking them in traffic."

Actually I kind of disagree with your disagreement. Other than dusk, your lights should be on at dawn and practically all states require your lights on in the rain, how many others do you see not following that rule. They are definitely safer in the daytime and in the rain. Perhaps a better solution would be the auto-on headlights with the DLR feature, best of both worlds. Better yet, just turn on your lights all the time, I do when towing, day or night because I want to be seen.

If you want lights , you should turn them on, I see about one in ten without lights on in the rain,
and I have never even heard of someone getting a ticket.
DRL's are not legal in my state for use alone at night or in the rain.

Again... my issue is that if you need headlights then you need taillights.

Remember, back in the sixties when they used to sell those little cone shaped lights as DRLs? Just one for the center of the grille! They were on the shelf,right next to the curb feelers!
I feel sorry for Canadians with GM trucks since I almost NEVER see one without a burned out DRL and they are required up there.

[Brian B-P]

Okay, I'll concede that this topic has become about lighting in general, including DRLs...

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

There is a way to turn them off. Apply the parking brake.

As others have said, that might not work. DRLs don't necessarily come on when the engine is started; they may wait for the parking brake to be released or the (automatic) transmission to be shifted out of Park. Once on, however, most systems can't be shut off just by re-applying the parking brake. The approach to DRLs has certainly changed over the years (more than a decade) that they have been required in Canada.

There is more than one DRL method, so don't assume anything:

• The 50% power high beam is used by my Sienna, and apparently used by Jim's FJ; it is never used with HID (high intensity discharge) high beams (the bi-xenon system).
• My Focus (like one of its Honda predecessors) runs the low beams at normal power - turning on the headlight switch just lights up the dash, turns on the tail/running lights, and enables high beam operation.
• Some vehicles (especially GM in the past and lots of vehicles with LED lights now) use separate dedicated DRL lamps, not used for any other purpose.
• For a while it was popular (especially with Chrysler) to use the front-facing amber turn signal lamps continuously on at full power for DRL, and flash them as turn and hazard signals.

Originally Posted by carlkeigley

... not a great deal of sense to having a light telling you they are on if there is no way of turning them off.

The light telling you the DRLs are on is so that you realize when it gets dark that you should turn on the headlights instead. Even a marginally intelligent driver shouldn't need this because he notices that the instrument panel is dark; however, even less intelligent automotive designers have created instrument panels which require illumination even in daylight, so that the warning light is now required.

Fortunately, none of my vehicles has an idiotic always-illuminated instrument panel, so even I know to turn my headlights on instead of continuing into the dark on only DRLs (good because DRLs only create a stealth vehicle for those unfortunate drivers following).

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Other than dusk, your lights should be on at dawn and practically all states require your lights on in the rain, how many others do you see not following that rule. They are definitely safer in the daytime and in the rain.

The problem is not so much that DRLs are bad in rain (although the ones using high beams are bad because their pattern is unsuitable); as Floyd explained, the problem is the lack of tail/running lights. If you need the lights on the front to see (not to be seen), then you need the other ones to be seen.

Originally Posted by floyd

I feel sorry for Canadians with GM trucks since I almost NEVER see one without a burned out DRL and they are required up there.

Those are the dedicated DRL lamps. They use a common bulb like a turn signal, which is really cheap and trivial to find. If the bulb is out in this case, it is probably because

• the driver has not noticed and no law enforcement officer cares, or
• the driver just doesn't care (because no law enforcement officer cares), or
• the bulb is unnecessarily difficult to change.

My GM truck ownership experience convinced me not to do that again for at least a couple of decades, so I won't learn about this personally for a while yet.

[emers382]

Since we're on about DRL's I didn't even know mine went out when I put my parking brake on until I was behind someone (on a hill) and applied it, to see the reflection of lights - out they went, and back on when I released the brake. I have a six speed manual in a 2009 Mazda6.

Adrian

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

I must disagree that DRLs(or DLRs) are a safety feature.
From what I've seen they become a hazard at dusk or dawn or in inclement weather. Many drivers treat them as a substitute for headlights (which also includes taillights). In the above conditions vehicles with only DRLs are not visible to those who are overtaking them in traffic.
Ersatz safety feature at best!

Not sure how DRL's could be used as a substitute for headlights as normally when they are on none of your dashboard lights are on - the dash is just as it would be if your headlights were not own. One would have to be pretty asleep at the wheel to realize your headlights were not actually on. Although I seen that more than a few times as well!

The pulling the handbrake to shut them off DRL actually doesnt work on all cars - newer or older. It works on my Subaru but not on my Acura. Funny enough on the Acura the lights dont come on when you first start it up only when you release the hand brake.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Not sure how DRL's could be used as a substitute for headlights as normally when they are on none of your dashboard lights are on - the dash is just as it would be if your headlights were not own. One would have to be pretty asleep at the wheel to realize your headlights were not actually on. Although I seen that more than a few times as well!

As I explained earlier:

The light telling you the DRLs are on is so that you realize when it gets dark that you should turn on the headlights instead. Even a marginally intelligent driver shouldn't need this because he notices that the instrument panel is dark; however, even less intelligent automotive designers have created instrument panels which require illumination even in daylight, so that the warning light is now required.

When I see these vehicles without tail lights at night, I often look at their dashboards... and usually I see one of those idiotic always-lit panels glowing brightly.

[Carol H]

Sorry Brian I missed that explanation.... both my cars dash lights are all very very dim and hard to read at night if the head light switch isnt on. Suspect all the makes are a little different in that regard.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Not sure how DRL's could be used as a substitute for headlights as normally when they are on none of your dashboard lights are on - the dash is just as it would be if your headlights were not own. One would have to be pretty asleep at the wheel to realize your headlights were not actually on. Although I seen that more than a few times as well!

.

I see you answered your first sentence with your second!
Or maybe it's the texting.

[Carol H]

LOL - small screen texting for sure Floyd.

As I am sure you realized is what I meant to say was the dash lights are just as they would be if your headlights were not "ON"! LOL Pretty darn dark & only a few items are dimly readable. Forget about trying to change a radio station or adjust the ac or heat LOL at least on both my cars thats the case - only the US purchased Subaru has an idiot light all bright telling me the DRL's are on. After owning the car for several years it still causes me to look at it more frequently than I should admit, as I want to make sure its not a different warning light telling me of a problem.

Cant say I have noticed over the years an increase in people driving on highways at night without all their lights on. Also dont think I have seen it any more in Canada where DRL are the norm vs while driving in the US where they are not the norm. I see people without all their lights on far more frequently when driving in the city than I do on the highway -always have & suspect that is due to the increased street lighting as people don't notice as fast that their dash is dim.

As far as whether or not DRL's work at reducing crashes here is a link to findings of various studies on the topic. It appears most agree they do work.