Novice at towing

[LeslieGErickson]

Hey all,

I'm going to take early retirement soon, and I'm getting a 16' Scamp or Casita or some other fiberglass RV (I haven't nailed down exactly which way I'm going to go), and I'm trading in my CR-V for a Subaru Outback since it will pull up to 2700 lbs.

My question is, how difficult will the trailer be to pull with the Outback? I'm a novice at pulling, as I've only pulled a trailer a few times, but I'm a quick learner so I'm not too concerned about it. I just want to make it as easy as possible.

What are your thoughts about my plan? Will the Outback pull well? I'll be all across the west from the deserts to the mountains, so I'll be pulling in a variety of conditions.

Any feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

Leslie

[Bob in Mb]

See the discussion on current thread " sway with a 16' scamp"

[Jon in AZ]

Whoa!!!

A Subaru Outback is rated for 2700 pounds total trailer weight, but it's limited to 200 pounds tongue weight. Here's a link to the 2016 Subaru Outback Owner's Manual. Section 8 has all the trailer towing information. There are a number of other important caveats in addition to the tongue weight limit.

Camping-type trailers should have a tongue weight of at least 10-15% of total weight for stable towing. That means a 2400-2600 pound Scamp or Casita 16'er should have a tongue weight of at least 240-260 pounds. See the thread Trailer Weights in the Real World for more information. Post #297 links to a spreadsheet of the data.

With a tongue weight limit of 200 pounds, an Outback is limited to a camping trailer that weighs no more than 2000 pounds, meaning a 13'er.

Boat trailers are inherently more stable with tongue weights under 10%, but we're not talking about boats here.

See this thread for another ongoing discussion of the same issue: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...amp-73380.html

[Dbybe]

Originally Posted by LeslieGErickson

Hey all,

I'm going to take early retirement soon, and I'm getting a 16' Scamp or Casita or some other fiberglass RV (I haven't nailed down exactly which way I'm going to go), and I'm trading in my CR-V for a Subaru Outback since it will pull up to 2700 lbs.

My question is, how difficult will the trailer be to pull with the Outback? I'm a novice at pulling, as I've only pulled a trailer a few times, but I'm a quick learner so I'm not too concerned about it. I just want to make it as easy as possible.

What are your thoughts about my plan? Will the Outback pull well? I'll be all across the west from the deserts to the mountains, so I'll be pulling in a variety of conditions.

Any feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

Leslie

I tow with a 2011 Subaru Outback 4 cyl CVT. I have a Happier Camper HC1 which is 13' long total. Have not weighed the trailer but the tongue weight is usually right around 160 lbs. trailer is probably in the 1500-1600 lb. range fully loaded. I have about 4000 miles on the trailer now since last September. It is towing well in the cool weather. There is plenty of power. (I have been towing to 100 degrees in the flats, and about 80 on climbs.). You can tell though that the suspension is not really designed for towing. Perhaps better rear shocks or sway bars might help. The other concern is that Subaru lowers the tow rating for temps at 104 and long climbs, to 1350. I have had it to 4000 foot elevation which was not a problem, but as I get into the real mountains this summer we will see. If I were looking for another tow vehicle I would look for something a bit more substantial than the Subaru, though so far it is doing pretty well.



Don
Sacramento

[ZachO]

On some level, "the bigger the tow vehicle, the easier time you'll have". You're going with the absolute minimum size and power vehicle. It'll be a challenge.

It's already been said, but you'll do better with either a larger tow vehicle, or a smaller trailer.

[LeslieGErickson]

I read the thread you pointed me to, and I have a lot to consider. I like the idea of the better gas mileage with an Outback, so I didn't consider a pickup for very long.

I originally thought I would get a 13', but I'll be living in it full time (along with some tent camping) for a few years, so I thought the extra space would be better.

Now, apparently, I have some thinking to do. With my inexperience with pulling and RVing, I definitely want the best and easiest setup I can find.

Thanks for your input!

Leslie

[steve dunham]

We have owned a 16 ft Scamp SD and a 17 ft Casita Spirit DLX.
The tongue weight of the Scamp was around 250 lbs and the Casita is around 425 lbs. I gave up on towing with a vehicle that is pushing it's limits. I bought a 1/2 ton truck and just go camping. Even with a truck , if you don't limit the amount of extras you carry you can approach or exceed your GVWR. I like the feel of being in control when towing versus the trailer being in control. In reality trying to get the tongue weight of a 16 ft trailer under 200 lbs may well be an unattainable goal.

[Jon in AZ]

Steve is right- living on the edge is not fun. But for a 16' Scamp or Casita, I don't think a truck is the only option. There are a number of minivans and mid-sized SUVs with tow ratings of 3500/350 or more. That's what I'd look for.

Best advice is to download and read the owner's manual for any vehicle you are considering. Don't trust sales brochures or manufacturer websites to give full disclosure. Owner's manuals for most vehicles can be found with a simple Google search.

I added a couple of links to my earlier post you might find helpful.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by LeslieGErickson

Hey all,

I'm going to take early retirement soon, and I'm getting a 16' Scamp or Casita or some other fiberglass RV (I haven't nailed down exactly which way I'm going to go), and I'm trading in my CR-V for a Subaru Outback since it will pull up to 2700 lbs.

My question is, how difficult will the trailer be to pull with the Outback? I'm a novice at pulling, as I've only pulled a trailer a few times, but I'm a quick learner so I'm not too concerned about it. I just want to make it as easy as possible.

What are your thoughts about my plan? Will the Outback pull well? I'll be all across the west from the deserts to the mountains, so I'll be pulling in a variety of conditions.

Any feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

Leslie

Having towed the lightest layout of the 16' Scamps (a Side Bath) with an Outback for 5 years I would recommend not tow anything over 13' with it for a couple of reasons.

Big one is stability. You will be able to stow a 16' Scamp so that it does not exceed the total tow weight limit set by Subaru BUT In order to get the trailer nice a stable and not sway you are going to need 10% weight on the tongue. Subaru's Outback has a max 200lb limit on the tongue. My 16' Scamp (older model) is a side bath one of the lightest of the 16''s and had no AC, one propane tank, one battery, no water in the tanks and loaded evenly inside weighed in over and over between 2200/2300lbs on the axle meaning the tongue weight need to be at 220/230lbs for stability - it actually towed much better on the highways with 240lbs on the tongue. Check the thread Trailer Weights in the Real World Thread for actual weights of trailers. My trailer appears on that list a couple of times and one of them is #37 - note in that listing that I had only 200lbs on the tongue and was heavier on the axle than normal. That was a short test on my part to see if I could get a stable tow with only 200lbs on the tongue - so I had moved items to behind the axle to get the weight off the tongue - It did NOT work out well and for the return trip home I had moved stuff around in the trailer to better balance it and had it back at 240lbs on the tongue for safety reasons.

While the Outback provided a nice solid tow with the extra weight on the tongue it did struggle on long high climbs so I would often look at alternate routes to avoid such climbs if possible. Especially on warm summer days.

The BIG problem I experienced towing with the Outback was excessive wear and tear and the bills that went with it.

I had owned two previous Outbacks that did not tow and much higher yearly milage put on them than the one that did tow. But the one that did tow had what I would consider a MUCH higher level of yearly wear and tear repair issues, it actually had a lot of items in need of replacement before it had 50,000 miles on it that the other ones I had owned had never needed replacing even though they had much higher milage on them.

Most of the items that required replacing on the Outback that did tow were believed by the two independent machines who worked on it to be the result of excessive heat most probable caused by towing a trailer that maxed out its tow spec. I never had a transmission problem (thank goodness) but the vehicle required repairs on pretty well everything else by the time it had 60,000 miles on it. To Subaru's credit they did pitch in and help pay for the cost of some of the repairs even though due to its age it was off warranty as the items needing repair should have under normal conditions not have need repair/replacement with the milage it had on it, they of course had no idea as to what I had towed with it and for how many miles....

As much as I loved my Outback after some pretty hefty repair bills I retired it from towing. As it had so much work done on it and figured that it would be ok to keep as a second vehicle in the family, unfortunately in the year it was kept and not used for towing the trips to the repair shop continued and the decision was made to get rid of it. I have no doubt that using it to tow a trailer that was at its upper weight towing limit played a big part in its not so great repair history.

[LeslieGErickson]

Thanks everyone for all the input!

I hate giving up gas mileage when I'm not towing, but it looks like I might have to. I was thinking a Toyota Tecoma for a pick up or maybe a Honda Pilot or Toyota SUV would work.

I don't think I want to go any smaller on the trailer since I'll be living in it.

Leslie

[Carol H]

I forgot to note that while I currently tow with a mid size truck I would if I was planning to pull only a 16' trailer look at some of the alternative vehicles that have a 3500lb tow spec but with a V6 that are not trucks. I think you will find they are able to provide a very solid and comfortable tow for a small trailer, perhaps even more solid & comfortable than a truck ;-)

The Highlander is one I would put at the top of my list as I know several folks who are towing with them and are very happy with them. Only reason I did not go that route is I am looking at going to a heavier/larger trailer and need a higher tow rating.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by LeslieGErickson

Thanks everyone for all the input!

I hate giving up gas mileage when I'm not towing,
Leslie

Well I think you will find as I did have that Subaru's MPG's are not the best to start with, so that many of the slightly larger vehicles with larger engines actually get the same or in some cases better gas milage.

[LeslieGErickson]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Well I think you will find as I did have that Subaru's MPG's are not the best to start with, so that many of the slightly larger vehicles with larger engines actually get the same or in some cases better gas milage.

I wondered about that. The new Outbacks are rated 33 on the highway, and I've averaged 31 with my CR-V (rated at 32) over the past two summers with more than 10K miles. But I know the Outback wouldn't get near that mileage towing.

The Highlander is something I'll look at, but then I'm looking at a much higher price tag for the vehicle - I wanted to stay at about $30K at the highest. I'll start looking for used ones this summer.

Thanks Carol for your input! I find it so valuable!

Leslie

[CampyTime]

Hi Leslie,

Forgive me if I missed something, but I didn't see if it will be you living in trailer or with significant other? If you'll be alone, and love your outback, I think the 13 will do you just fine. I camp quite regularly alone in mine and am happy with it.

You didn't mention, but I wondered if bath/toilet is necessary for you? If you plan on using campsite facilities, you could save the bath space in a 13 for a front dinette setup. I know that's offered in scamp 13 Deluxe, but I wonder if they'd put that in there for you with a standard? Others might know more.

If you plan in using campground facilities, a porta Pottie works well for late night calls or other emergent needs. If you got a front dinette, you wouldn't have to make the bed to have a place to sit and eat, etc. But if it's only offered in deluxe, now you're adding more weight due to wood cabinetry.

Myself, I leave bed as is and sit on my sofa bunk to eat. I turned my silverware drawer into a shelf when pulled out. I also use a TV tray (from the 70's) to put my meal on.

Keep in mind you might be set up camping a lot more than you're driving, and if you love your outback, you'll still get that great gas mileage when going into town, sightseeing and the like. The tongue weight on my 13 standard is 160 pounds, measured with tongue weight scale.

Please know these are just my thoughts for your consideration. I am very happy and comfy in my scamp. Living smaller than home takes a little getting used to, organization and planning either way.

Best wishes,

Wendy


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[LeslieGErickson]

Thanks Wendy!

I will be solo, and I had originally thought the 13' would be the way to go. But as I've been figuring out what to take and what to store in long-term storage, I realize I might be more comfortable with a little extra room.

There are just so many decisions! I so appreciate your input and I plan to head up to Scamp in April to check out the various trailers and decide what I can or can't do.

Ideally, actually, the 13' with the Outback would be great, but it'll be even a more drastic adjustment.

I plan to choose inexpensive, forestry campgrounds a lot, so their facilities are quite limited. Because of that, I thought I'd prefer to have a small shower/toilet. But I won't be using it when I'm somewhere with facilities of course.

Thanks again, and any other input is welcome!

Leslie

[Raz]

Hello Leslie and welome to the forum Have you met RVSue? If not you should. Having never towed before she bought a Casita and walked off to look for America. Enjoy, Raz

rvsue and her canine crew | Living on less and enjoying life more

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by LeslieGErickson

Hey all,

I'm going to take early retirement soon, and I'm getting a 16' Scamp or Casita or some other fiberglass RV (I haven't nailed down exactly which way I'm going to go), and I'm trading in my CR-V for a Subaru Outback since it will pull up to 2700 lbs.

My question is, how difficult will the trailer be to pull with the Outback? I'm a novice at pulling, as I've only pulled a trailer a few times, but I'm a quick learner so I'm not too concerned about it. I just want to make it as easy as possible.

What are your thoughts about my plan? Will the Outback pull well? I'll be all across the west from the deserts to the mountains, so I'll be pulling in a variety of conditions.

Any feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

Leslie

We pulled a Scamp 16 and equivalents all over North America 8 years with our 2004 Honda CRV including mountains, deserts and dirt roads.

We had 2400 pounds on the Scamp 16's axle and 200 pounds on the tongue and never had an issue. As I've written many times on the site we had to properly inflate trailer and tow vehicle tires and did a number of small things to ensure a solid tow.

always glad to answer questions.

Norm

[vintageracer]

I would say that everybody has thoroughly covered the "Pulling" of a trailer.

Pulling is relatively easy. Stopping on the other hand is a complete different issue. Yes trailer brakes help however you should consider "Pulling" your trailer with a vehicle that is "Larger" than your trailer and capable of STOPPING your trailer WITHOUT trailer brakes. If you tow vehicle is capable of "stopping" with your trailer it is certainly capable of "pulling" your trailer!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by LeslieGErickson

I wondered about that. The new Outbacks are rated 33 on the highway, and I've averaged 31 with my CR-V (rated at 32) over the past two summers with more than 10K miles. But I know the Outback wouldn't get near that mileage towing.



Leslie

Yup the new ones are rated at 33 mpg and my old ones where not rated that high but to be honest I do not think I ever came close to getting the advertised mpgs on any of my Outbacks.

There are a number of less costly smaller tow vehicles than the Highlander that would work.

You need to watch it though as many differ depending of which model/engine you purchase and if its factory tow package or not. Also in recent years most of the auto manufactures started doing an agreed towing test and some may or may not argue it is the reason why some of the smaller SUV's in the last few years have had their towing capacity down graded.

I know a party pulling a 17' Escape with a Toyota Venza (3500b) tow capacity and is happy with it . Also a number of folks here are pulling 16' & 17' with RAV4's & Ford Escapes but again you need to watch which model/engine you look at and the year as they have changed their ratings. The Chev Equinox/GMC Terrain are both 3500lbs I think. Jeep Cherokee & Mazda CX9 might be a couple of others worth looking at.

If your willing to go used to stay in your price point that opens the door up to a number of others options as well - Volvo XC60 or XC70, Acura MDX, Lexus RX350, VW Touareg to name a few. The later one would be my first choose if I were to ever win the Lotto. ;-)

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

I would say that everybody has thoroughly covered the "Pulling" of a trailer.

Pulling is relatively easy. Stopping on the other hand is a complete different issue. Yes trailer brakes help however you should consider "Pulling" your trailer with a vehicle that is "Larger" than your trailer and capable of STOPPING your trailer WITHOUT trailer brakes. If you tow vehicle is capable of "stopping" with your trailer it is certainly capable of "pulling" your trailer!

Thats the beauty of the new tow test that all the majority of auto manufactures have been putting their vehicles through in recent years. Part of that test is the ability to stop what they claim it can tow.

Having said that I know when this topic has come up previously that there are some here that assume that because a vehicle is smallish in design it does not weigh as much as another larger vehicle and thus can not be capable of having the same stopping power. That in my experience is an assumption that is incorrect. For example the vehicle the OP originally asked about in many model years weighed close to the same and in a couple of model years actual out weighed a VERY popular mid sized pick up truck that I have never heard anyone question its ability to stop a 16' trailer ;-)