Offroad washboard best axle?

[stevebaz]

The best option would be to get larger wider tires so when off road you can drop the air pressure on the trailer tires to about 15 lbs like typical 4x4 enthusiast do. That would help take the beating out of the trailer. I sure like the Timbren axles. too bad they don't make them at 2500 lb range. they jump up to 3000 lbs from 2000. Short of that I would use a straight axle at 3000 lbs with lighter 2000 lb lief springs. Any thing you do needs to deal with the light weight road frame and possibly the body attachments. The first goal is a design where you have no chance of breaking an axle. Break the frame you can still jury-rig a way out. Break an axle your dead. I don't think anyone here really thinks these trailers are great off road trailers but they still could be made reasonably semi maintained dirt road road worthy short of roads for locked up 4X4 rigs.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by OscarD

That rig does get the wheels turning! It would be hard giving it up.

It does beg the question. After investing that much money & labor, is it still not doing what the owner wants?

[Mike Magee]

I suspect that a Lil Hauley would do pretty well on rough trails. At appropriate speeds, of course. The frame and body seem tough enough. If the interior were outfitted sparingly and/or extra durably, it should go just about anywhere.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I suspect that a Lil Hauley would do pretty well on rough trails. At appropriate speeds, of course. The frame and body seem tough enough. If the interior were outfitted sparingly and/or extra durably, it should go just about anywhere.

Only issue might be the wide track.

[RogerDat]

I wonder if one of the FG teardrops such as EggCamper make might make a good high ground clearance off road camper?

Weight is less, center of gravity for the shell is lower. And they already appear to have pretty good ground clearance, and large wheel wells.

[OscarD]

Less is more.

[Badger]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Think I have to agree with Floyd on this one. The typical FGRV was not designed or engineered for serious off road travel. Not to say it cannot be modified to that purpose but that modification project starts with design and engineering of the overall structure.

There was a custom FGRV built for a rock climber but it was built from the frame up for that purpose. Essentially the gutted shell was the only "original" equipment.

I would be a little skeptical that the cabinets, seats, appliances could take the pounding implied by skid plates and skid rollers. I would also be concerned about the overall shell to floor attachment, at least on some models. Tabbing is strong but was not designed with true off road use in mind.

Ground clearance would probably provide some gain in access to back country but overall the suitability for off road is only as good as the weakest part of the structure.

After saying all that I would love to see pictures as you make any modifications.

Roger/Floyd I think your right but I can't figure out why seemingly no one has taken this on. I'm not a mechanic or an engineer so hopefully someone here can help me in my thinking on this.

It seems to me that the biggest issue is ground clearance and the limited amount of travel inherent in a standard egg suspension. Ground clearance can be overcome to a degree with "flipping" or a straight axle but once the limit of travel has been reached it forces the body upwards placing undo stress on the frame and the contents of the trailer.

So if someone really wanted to take any trailer off road they would need a stronger frame and a more conventional car like suspension with a coil spring, a shock absorber, and maybe some kind of trailing arm. To my knowledge the only trailers built like that are some of the Australian models and a few stick built trailers made my Northwoods like the Nash and Arctic Fox.

But here is what I don't get and I'm sure someone here can illumine me. Why are regular TT suspensions set up like this? Does the limited amount of travel make for better towing qualities? Would the amount of flexing required place too much stress on a molded fiberglass body?

It just seems like all the qualities of a FGRV that we all admire on a suspension with enough ground clearance and enough travel would make for an ideal adventure vehicle. Yes, it would weigh more but not that much more. A 20 ft Nash (17K) weighs 400lb less than a 21ft Bigfoot (25B21FB )

I know that most people would never camp in the way I would. Also most people wouldn't want to secure everything to the degree necessary to go down really rough roads. That's why most trailers are built the way they are. But premium off road trailers sell well in Australia would there really be no market for a fiberglass off road trailer in North America?

What am I missing?

[Andrew Gibbens]

Assorted thoughts:

- Many people assume an off-road trailer should follow off-road powered vehicle practice, but that ain't necessarily so. The trailer is suspended on three points and doesn't have high traction demands (some braking would be good...), while the powered vehicle is suspended on four points and does need maximum traction. So big axle articulation and soft suspension are needed in the four wheeler to keep the powered wheels on the ground and big tyres with low pressure are used for the same reason. None of that applies to the three-point towed trailer, since three points 'fit' any surface perfectly.

- Soft suspension may help somewhat with minimizing the load on the trailer frame/body off-road but if dampers are also added, the benefit on washboard roads will be reduced (since the dampers will restrict wheel compliance).

- Soft suspension means more wheel travel, so either the whole vehicle has to be raised up or the wheel wells enlarged.

- Timbren axle-less units do not seem to have any more suspension travel than regular torsion axles, so it's hard to see any advantage they would have off-road.

- Washboard roads, particularly if driven at speed, dramatically increase the fatigue loading on the tongue/A-frame, so either a reinforcement of the tongue/A-frame (around the critical area under the front of the body) or annual (or more frequent) inspection for fatigue cracking would be sensible if the suspension allows fast driving on washboard roads. The Australians, with plenty of washboard roads, have extremely tough standards for tongue/A-frame strength which trailers from most other countries do not pass.

[OscarD]

The 4X trailer builds here in the US are definitely getting everything they want in a very small box. Seems the axle-less is working from their forums.

"Suspension held up great throughout the journey and the water tank the axle-less suspension let me put in came in very handy in the desert."

"He said loaded up on rocky washboard FSR it handled like it was glued to the road. I watched him in my rearview mirror all the way home, that little trailer tracks like a dream."

One mod was to put a 20g water tank where the axle would have been. Always have wanted to get the spare tire off the back, maybe it will fit there!

[Avey]

Originally Posted by OscarD

Hello Dirt Travelers

Broke a spindle off our 15ft Trillium out in the desert. Need a new axle.
We gingerly travel dirt roads in Baja, AZ, Eastern Sierras so I am tempted to raise the threshold on washboard and gullies.
Anyone put their egg through the torture test?
1. Springs vs torsion.. ?
Lift height?
Remove upper cabinets..etc.

Oscar

Have you looked into Tembren Axles, see them online. I am seriously considering putting them on my Burro.

[OscarD]

Ordered the Timbren 2000#HD w 3500#straight spindle w brake flange. eTrailer Rene has been helpful and the price was comparable w torsion type axles-- no tax or shipping helped.
The idea is to add 18" of tube to the frame for reinforcement and a lift so didnt get the 4in lift model axle. Dave Hunsucker, River Valley Welding the welder in Blythe CA was working on a car frame he reinforced welding flat iron along the 50's car frame. (The car is a show low-rider that needs reinforcing because of the bouncing hydralics). Seems like a clean solution.

The 2x2 cross member that fits into the axle is also recommended.
One drawback is the only choice of 2000# or 3500#. The axle will be working rather than sitting high and riding hard.
Thanx for helping out w my choice. Will update after Baja trip.

[OscarD]

Timbren Axle update: The heavy duty model was an inch long so it took some cutting and welding to fit it (the non HD would have been better). A square frame of 3x angle iron stabilizes as well as protects the 3in drop in the floor where the grey water bag resides. There's 11in clearance with 9in under the Timbrens. The trailer rides better without bouncing over potholes. Hindsight I would have ordered the standard build-

[OscarD]

UPDATE
Have traveled 1800 miles. Last trip home was 400 miles of rain! The axle has changed the whole concept of what-is-works to bring-it-on. The extra weight of the 3x angle iron frame is an unexpected bonus that keeps the trailer on the road with the weight low and centered. No more loading the front just to keep the hiphop/sway from happening. The tires do fine with less air pressure and no heat. The washboard will bring up other issues but now the options are available.

[Paul O.]

Now you are ready for any challenge. Another trip to Chaco Canyon, maybe?

[OscarD]

I am trying to restrain myself.. 10% further down a dirt road will get me 90% of where I want to be. Chaco was the inaugural trip for my Hot Rod Lincoln with new air bags and front springs. Thanx for the memory!
Funny 54 sec. video of going 90% too far in Death Valley. (Camera battery died-we made it)
Dedeckera Canyon Crazy Dog Dyslexia - YouTube

[Philsie]

We just got back from our first extended trip to S.C. in our 4500 trillium, 4500 kms.
Most of it was very smooth, but there were stretches on concrete where the hiway was very "undulating" and the trailer fought with the TV, (sounded like the ball & hitch were coming off). The only way of stopping this was to slow down to about 45 - 50 mph, until we were back on asphalt. It's the same going over bridges!
I think the suspension is origional. It seems very hard. When I step on the door frame there isn't any spring up & down (trailer off the jacks of course).

*Is this normal?
*Would a new suspension help?
*Is it even possible to repair these rubber axles?
*Or would it be better to go with a whole new axle & spring setup?

Thanks in advance for any help

Phil

[David Tilston]

Phil, Sounds like a new axle is in your future. The only other thing I would check is if your tongue weight is between 150 and 200 lbs.
If you get a new axle, I would go with a 2500 lb rating. I put a 3500 lb axle on, and it seems too stiff.

[OscarD]

TIMBREN 2000LBS AXLE-LESS SUSPENSION WITH REGULAR SPINDLE ARMS, w/ brake flange. Add a 2x crossbar.
part #ASR2000S02, not HD will bolt on with little effort. (after cutting off the original). eTrailer -no tax no shipping.
Travels great and doesn't do the herky jerky if not stabilized while parked. Washboard will be a personal decision not a limitation.

[UtahPete]

Originally Posted by OscarD

Timbren Axle update: The heavy duty model was an inch long so it took some cutting and welding to fit it (the non HD would have been better). A square frame of 3x angle iron stabilizes as well as protects the 3in drop in the floor where the grey water bag resides. There's 11in clearance with 9in under the Timbrens. The trailer rides better without bouncing over potholes. Hindsight I would have ordered the standard build-

Could you explain better how the HD is 'an inch long so it took some cutting and welding to fit it' ? Which dimension is 1" longer than the non-HD? I thought only the spindle arm was longer to accommodate fatter tires.

Also, why was it you went with the straight spindle arm rather than the 4" lift?

I have a 16' Scamp I'm thinking of using this system on, so that off-roading is easier (bigger wheels, tires, more clearance).

Thanks.

[OscarD]

HD is built for bad roads! I would still not get the 3500#, or the HD--- we travel light. The 2000# is taking the bounce rather than the frame. It is a well manufactured piece -- i would guess it is well engineered.
My original design was to reinforce the frame and get the 3-4in height w/ a welded section of tube. The trailer has good clearance. The tail could be worked (raise the bumper--add skid or do some cutting and fiberglassing) We have a truck that raises/lowers in the back 3.5in.
Truth is-- we like one step in-and-out the door!
The dimensions are on the Timbren site -- call them - they are helpful. its just that little bit longer on the frame that a beefed up system was necessary for the Trillium 4500 (the frame offsets). My opinion is the HD would be called for if bad roads were normal and heavy loads were common.
My theory the extra weight low and centered makes for the sweet ride so sometimes its just luck.
Longer spindle fat tires would be good for getting up a muddy creek, and matching spare. Fenders would be easy to add. But I am not sure fat equals better. My experience is mostly desert.
4X sites are great for creative solutions and they have installed trailer Timbrens with good results so check in w them.