Oliver-Real Tow Weight - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-20-2016, 08:36 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Bernese Bunch View Post
...Towing is new to me and best to call the TV manufacturer to get the tow weights. I am less confused than I was before I joined this forum but will always defer to the Toyota tech folks for real tow weights.
I'm not sure what you mean by "real tow weights."

If you mean realistic, on-the-road weights of a loaded trailer, the best resource is the sticky thread "Trailer Weights in the Real World" in the General Chat section of this forum. I don't know if there is much data on Olivers, though- there aren't that many out there.

But if you mean information about the real tow rating of a vehicle, as well as any optional equipment required to achieve that rating, the owner's manual is the place to go. Manuals for most late models are available online, so you can read the fine print before you buy. You may have had a different experience, but I have found dealers surprisingly unhelpful. In the best case, they can't tell you anything beyond or in contradiction of the owner's manual. The lawyers won't allow them to...
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:31 AM   #58
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Hey Bernese Bunch the following may be helpful, (love your dog pic!)

If we look at the Oliver Elite II metrics for the base model without any options. They give you four key numbers:

1. Tongue (hitch) weight = 420 lbs.
2. Dry (Unit base) weight = 4600 lbs.
3. Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) = 7000 lbs.
4. Net carrying capacity = 2400 lbs.

Please keep in mind, most Oliver Elite II owners load up their trailers with many options which add to the Dry Weight and Tongue Weight and lowers the Net Carrying Capacity. This is really not an issue for the travel trailer since the Oliver design can accommodate a substantial GVWR and large Net Carrying Capacity as a starting point on the base model. The Tongue Weight on the base model is also relatively light when compared to other 23 foot trailers. I suspect the Elite II which I have on order will weigh in at approximately 5000lbs for unit base weight and 500lbs for tongue weight.

What you need to be concerned with in using an existing tow vehicle or purchasing a new one are at least three key numbers.
1. Towing capacity.
2. Payload capacity.

3. Front axle weight as it relates to your rear axle.

I am not sure if you have gathered these metrics. Although each vehicle manufacturer will post values on door jam stickers, you need to also look under or near your hitch receiver for towing and tongue weight limits with and without a weight distribution hitch.


Please keep in mind, when you consider a tow vehicle which is “razor thin” in relation to the demands of the travel trailer, it is best to visit a weight station, such as a CAT Scales in your area in calculating your payload metric. The CAT Scales will also help you understand the front axle weight both before and after loading and hook-up so you can determine if you need a weight distribution hitch. Some travel trailer owners overlook the issue of front axle weight until it is too late and they lose directional control due to the understeer effect.

This week I drove to my local CAT Scales to weigh my new tow vehicle. I felt the need for a few metrics to guide me in deciding if I needed to purchase a weight distribution hitch (WDH).

My goal was to complete a first weigh with full gas tank, no gear or passengers. The second weigh would include a full tank, passenger and full camping gear.

Prior to setting off to the scales, I located the factory installed labels (total of three) in the door jam and under the bumper near the hitch receiver. The following information was provided:


1. GVWR = 7050lbs.
2. Load capacity with passengers and gear = 1777lbs.
3. Max load on front axle = 3525lbs.
4. Max load on rear axle = 3800lbs.
5. Without WDH, Max Towing = 5000lbs., Max Tongue = 500lbs.
6. With WDH, Max Towing = 12,100lbs, Max Tongue = 1210lbs.

After taking delivery of the tow vehicle, I added a tonneau cover and tool box which would lower the value in line #2. I knew the first weigh at the CAT scales would help me adjust the figure. In fact the figure was adjusted to 1650lbs.

The CAT Scale weight tickets provided the following:
Weight #1 - Steer Axle = 3100lbs, Drive Axle = 2300lbs, Gross Weight = 5400lbs.
Weight #2 – Steer Axle = 3200lbs, Drive Axle = 2700lbs, Gross Weight = 5900lbs.

So what does all this information tell me?!


Since I hope to camp in cold weather with the possibility of snowy road surfaces, I need to be concerned with maintaining good steer axle weight as it relates to the rear axle. You can see the effect of loading the truck bed. If I added a tongue weight of 500lbs the front and rear axles may be equal in weight. My preference would be to have some additional weight on the steer axle to avoid understeer effects, especially on slick roads.

With this information, I will be seeking the installation of the Anderson WDH for weight distribution as my next step when I take delivery of my Elite II in June. (I suspect the sway benefits will be less critical.) Once back home, I will be returning to the CAT Scales for three additional weigh recordings to determine the effectiveness of the Andersen WDH. Without the actual scale recordings I would be unable to quantify the value of the WDH as it relates to weight distribution. You may have also noticed I will need to be careful in how much weight I distribute forward to the steer axle since I do not want to exceed the axle weight limit of 3525lbs.


Buzzy
P.S. I understand you seek to retain your existing TV and you may seek the single axle Elite. The methodology I used could be used with any TV or TT.
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Old 03-20-2016, 01:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Buzzy View Post
Hey Bernese Bunch the following may be helpful, (love your dog pic!)

This week I drove to my local CAT Scales to weigh my new tow vehicle. I felt the need for a few metrics to guide me in deciding if I needed to purchase a weight distribution hitch (WDH).

My goal was to complete a first weigh with full gas tank, no gear or passengers. The second weigh would include a full tank, passenger and full camping gear.
Hey Buzzy,

Unless you need/want the certified printout from CAT, the weigh stations on 93 are always on, I stopped by when they weren't open and took the readings for my TV with and without the cap and wife. Haven't had cause to pull the OlIver down yet, I'm not quite as close as you, but I will and it's nice as you can change up the configuration as you'd like with no having to rush. Just an FYI.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:08 PM   #60
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Hey Randy,


First off, it is good to see you posting on the Forum! I bet you love your Elite II. You were wise to act fast when Ron made the decision to sell!


Thank you for the heads up on the Route 93 north scales. I never thought to drive in and weigh my truck. That is a much better idea than getting in line behind an 18 wheeler to use the CAT scales. Although it is entertaining how they look at me as a little ant in comparison to their huge rigs.


Buzzy
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Old 03-20-2016, 04:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "real tow weights."

If you mean realistic, on-the-road weights of a loaded trailer, the best resource is the sticky thread "Trailer Weights in the Real World" in the General Chat section of this forum. I don't know if there is much data on Olivers, though- there aren't that many out there.

But if you mean information about the real tow rating of a vehicle, as well as any optional equipment required to achieve that rating, the owner's manual is the place to go. Manuals for most late models are available online, so you can read the fine print before you buy. You may have had a different experience, but I have found dealers surprisingly unhelpful. In the best case, they can't tell you anything beyond or in contradiction of the owner's manual. The lawyers won't allow them to...
Jon,

The info I sought came directly from Toyota and, after by-passing the call center reps, spoke directly with a technical specialist. He was very helpful explaining the various components of towing with my specific SUV based on the VIN#. I also questioned if I needed any additional equipment to tow the Ollie. Sorry if I made any implication that I spoke with the dealer. I did not. I do understand the limitations of a dealer and the value of the owner's manual. Thanks
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:01 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by u075908 View Post
I'm in the market for a trailer. We've been looking at the Oliver Legacy II Elite. It has a GVWR of 7000 lbs. We're also in the market for a tow vehicle. We're thinking of a diesel Grand Cherokee Jeep 4x4. It has a tow rating of 7200 lbs. Do you think the think the Grand Cherokee will tow it well?
The dry weight is 4600 lbs. for the Elite II. You'd need to carry a lot of stuff in addition to filled tanks to exceed 7000 lbs., right?
What about a Toyota, Sequoia? You could sleep in that thing if Sasquatch comes knocking on your Ollie door!!!!
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:42 AM   #63
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The April issue of Trailer Life has a review of a 2016 Toyota Tacoma pulling an Oliver legacy ll. Said it did great, so I imagine it would pull the 18' just great.
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:04 AM   #64
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It is true there are many tow vehicles on the market which can pull either of the Oliver travel trailers. For me the greater concern would be the ability to stop while navigating a steep decline. As well as the ability to maintain solid directional control during adverse conditions such as a slippery road surface or strong cross winds. For some of us, camping is a part time activity so we are occasional users of the skills needed to safely tow a travel trailer during challenging conditions. It is during those times when I would seek an extra margin of safety from my tow vehicle.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:38 AM   #65
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My Legacy Elite II came off the line at 4875 and a tongue weight of 480. I tried a WDH for awhile but it was a pain so I had air bags installed and they do a great job leveling the truck.


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Old 03-30-2016, 09:39 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by trumpetguy View Post
My Legacy Elite II came off the line at 4875 and a tongue weight of 480. I tried a WDH for awhile but it was a pain so I had air bags installed and they do a great job leveling the truck.


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Thanks trumpetguy!
So that 5355# includes all options but no water, propane or personal/camping gear?
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:46 AM   #67
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I don't understand the significance of summing the trailer weight with the tongue weight.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:59 AM   #68
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There are three weights to consider; axle weight, tongue weight, and trailer weight, which is the sum of the other two. I think some folks confuse axle weight and trailer weight, at least in terminology.

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Old 03-30-2016, 11:15 AM   #69
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I don't understand the significance of summing the trailer weight with the tongue weight.
To figure the cargo capacity.... gross vehicle weight rating - as built curb weight = how much stuff you can put into it.
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:21 AM   #70
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Ah yes. I should have included that.
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