Please tell us your Motivation - Page 12 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-08-2012, 06:36 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Robin G View Post
Since watching this post from the 2nd responce I honored Ed's request to allow everyone to explain their motivation. (till, now)


I just got to ask, Ed have you read a explanation that would change the way you tow? Do the explanations make you want to change your tow vehicle?
No,not even close.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:43 AM   #156
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It is tough for me to not Crap in my own thread and expand on this whole thing but I asked for restraint from arguing and discussion for a reason and I need to follow that as well,it is KILLING me too!

One observation though is the way the same information presented here to different people seems to be interpreted entirely differently somehow?
I guess this is Social Commentary in a sense and I will not go into it too deeply right now either.

I have just noticed that the same reason given in a case is looked at as justification to some and a lame excuse by others?

Curious for sure?

I had a Logic Professor whose simple observations were"Itsa so Simple" in heavy Italian accent.

"It is all in your point of view"

Clearly it is.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:34 AM   #157
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A couple of more thoughts: someone mentioned ( and I'm paraphrasing )that there are folks who have plenty of "facts" to show that it might be safe ( to tow over the limit ).
This reminds me of something a lawyer told me one time as I was being being prepared to testify in court: "never confuse the facts with the truth".

My other thought is that it seems to be human nature to think we know better than what the guy next to us says, and never has this been more true than in cars. Entire industries and billions of dollars are made catering to back yard mechanics that think they know more than the engineeers down at the car factory. What the heck, oil "additives" alone are a good example.
Snake oil, son, snake oil........

Bottom line is it's all about money. Folks who tow with smaller cheaper vehicles do so because they want to save more on purchase price and gas. I would bet you that 99% of the folks using under rated tow vehicles would go out and buy something bigger if they were to win some dough in the state lottery next week.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:39 AM   #158
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Bottom line is it's all about money. Folks who tow with smaller cheaper vehicles do so because they want to save more on purchase price and gas. I would bet you that 99% of the folks using under rated tow vehicles would go out and buy something bigger if they were to win some dough in the state lottery next week.
The irony being that many of those "more efficient" smaller vehicles are harder on fuel while towing than my 3/4 ton Blazer diesel. It usually gets 16-18mpg pulling. The truck does not have overdrive. Plus, it won't need extra repairs from bring stressed to the max.

The best part~ I bought it for $1,500 off of the government with 40,000 documented miles and no rust.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:46 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
A couple of more thoughts: someone mentioned ( and I'm paraphrasing )that there are folks who have plenty of "facts" to show that it might be safe ( to tow over the limit ).
This reminds me of something a lawyer told me one time as I was being being prepared to testify in court: "never confuse the facts with the truth".

My other thought is that it seems to be human nature to think we know better than what the guy next to us says, and never has this been more true than in cars. Entire industries and billions of dollars are made catering to back yard mechanics that think they know more than the engineeers down at the car factory. What the heck, oil "additives" alone are a good example.
Snake oil, son, snake oil........

Bottom line is it's all about money. Folks who tow with smaller cheaper vehicles do so because they want to save more on purchase price and gas. I would bet you that 99% of the folks using under rated tow vehicles would go out and buy something bigger if they were to win some dough in the state lottery next week.
If I were to Crap in my own thread this pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

Show Me The Money!
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:34 AM   #160
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No,not even close.




I figured there hadn't been...............
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:49 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
A couple of more thoughts: someone mentioned ( and I'm paraphrasing )that there are folks who have plenty of "facts" to show that it might be safe ( to tow over the limit ).
This reminds me of something a lawyer told me one time as I was being being prepared to testify in court: "never confuse the facts with the truth".

My other thought is that it seems to be human nature to think we know better than what the guy next to us says, and never has this been more true than in cars. Entire industries and billions of dollars are made catering to back yard mechanics that think they know more than the engineeers down at the car factory. What the heck, oil "additives" alone are a good example.
Snake oil, son, snake oil........

Bottom line is it's all about money. Folks who tow with smaller cheaper vehicles do so because they want to save more on purchase price and gas. I would bet you that 99% of the folks using under rated tow vehicles would go out and buy something bigger if they were to win some dough in the state lottery next week.
It is simply not factual or true that everyone secretly wants an oversized vehicle. The fact is that the fiberglass trailer's success is primarily predicated on on the fact that there is a whole segment of RVers who reject that notion.
Oversized vehicles are seen by many as a cause for overconfidence.In fact (truth be known) the larger the vehicle the more likely it will be used to tow beyond it's rating.
Driving down any interstate highway, at or below the speed limit, one needs only to wait a few minutes before he is passed by some overconfident driver with a clearly overloaded toyhauler, blowing by like he was being pursued by demons.
Honestly, which do you think is more stereotypically arrogant about driving skills and more dangerous on the highway...
1] The weekend "off-roader" in one ton quadcab towing his 37ft, 12000 pound toy hauler with a rear biased load at 80 MPH in slower traffic.
or...
2] The weekend "backpacker" in a little crossover SUV towing his 13ft, 1600 pound Scamp(100 pounds over the it's rating) at 60MPH to save fuel and the planet.

Good judgement is not limited to "ratings" and bad judgement is not eliminated by simple adherence.
So... which of us is "the guy next to us"??
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #162
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Reality

Reality

Reality always wins, it's not “if” but “when”.

If towing with a Honda CRV is wrong, it will become self evident. If it works that will also be evident. As far as I can tell most accidents are the result of speed, alcohol, improper loading, lack of attention, or ….

If I thought there was a chance of my towing with a Honda CRV was dangerous I would stop immediately. We have towed with the Honda CRV for 5 years without a single issue, towing more miles than most people on this site during that period. Fiberglass trailers are after all very small, well designed, easily towable trailers.

We have towed with our Honda to many places, many times where few have even been. The Honda has been stellar with no apparent wear issues, indicative that the drive train is adequate for the task. There have been no towing issues, crossing the Rockies many times and driving a 1000 miles of dirt roads where we never saw another RV.

As someone suggested, I am a gentle driver. We are in no rush. Many tow a 1000 miles in a two days, it's not us. Many drive at 70 mph, it's not us. Many rarely check their tires or lights, we check the tires every time we stop and our lights every morning we drive. I would be a gentle driver no matter what tow vehicle we owned.

It should be obvious that stepping out, trying something different is what allows progress. It is equally certain that being different can result in failure (and suspicion). I believe I've been successful with our Honda CRV. When I meet others and they ask about our tow vehicle, I see a combination of envy and lack of belief. Of course, in the big scheme of things, 5 years of towing is a small sample but not trivial. Here's a not so trivial case.

When I consider Can AM RV from afar they appear to be a successful business, 40 years selling RVs is certainly not the norm.

Assume Can AM outfits 250 customers a year, amounting to 10,000 customers (250*40) over their 40 business years, 10,000 is not a trivial number nor is 40 years. Businesses rarely survive that long unless they satisfy their customers.

Is it possible Can AM knows some things that others do not. Is it possible that they think outside of the box and have discovered something we all should know? Should we fear the actions of a Can Am or respect their ability to try a new way? Interestingly, Can AM goes out of there way to share their approache and experience. No matter one's towing strategy, one should thoroughly read their posts. New ways often fail but they are also the way we make all progress.

Reading about people's towing strategy is interesting to me and I hope to all. We should spend time learning from other's towing strategy, asking probing questions to learn, trying to understand successes and failures, and finally building a knowledge base from everyone's experience. There is no contest here.

Who is John Galt? Some will know and others not.... though I hope all know.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:51 AM   #163
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Repeating the same thing over and over again, may justify it in some eyes but not in mine.


Please if your a newbie, consider that the information given may not work for you. Please follow your vehicles guidelines for towing..........


Cause believe me, if your in America, your not in Europe! And you nor anyone else know's if Euorpean guidelines work for our towing adventures here. There is no substatoooooot for common sense!



And the excuse that us who believe there is a correct way to tow, is because we have big truck idus, is a crock! I tow with a vehicle that just meets towing guidelines. Don't own a monster truck, and I have been towing longer than most.

My first towing experience was a Ski boat when I had my learners permit. (backing up a trailer came much later, because I grew up with and married back up masters who would rather back it up than take the time to teach me how to.
But going forward has always done with a vehicle that can handle what's being towed behind it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:45 AM   #164
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I suspect that some of the decisions folks make here in regards to what level of risks they are willing to take may also has a great deal to with "what do you have to lose" in the event of being found guilty under the laws of negligence.

It would be a pretty good bet that many of those in the middle age group and up probable have a higher level of personal assets in comparison to someone in their mid 20's to 30's. The middle age group & up is more likely to have their cars paid off in full, own their own home in full or have a fairly small mortgage compared to the value of the home or some may have their own businesses etc. It would make sense to me that the party with the greater amount of assets to lose is less likely to put it all on the line in order to save themselves a thousand dollars a year in gas.

Dangeroustrailers.org has a pretty simple question to ask yourself in regards to the laws of negligence.

I also suspect that another contributing fact that may be a part of the decision making process is that those in the middle age group and up are more likely to know first hand of someone who lost it all in a civil negligence case than someone in the younger age group. Don't think many would argue that life experiences do not pay a big part in our decision making process.

How many times have you sat around a dinner table with family and old friends and stories about things we did in our teens and twenties and in some cases well into our thirties are mentioned? Good bet someone at the table has a crazy "can you believe they did that?" story to tell about someone at the table that everyone has a really good laugh over. Often it will follow with I have a one up on that story to tell which generates more laughter. But its also a good bet that after all the stores are told and the laughing dies down that someone will say "Can you believe we really did that S**t, wouldn't it be great if we could go back and do it all over but with the knowledge we have today?" In my experience more often than not most at the table would agree that would be a good thing and sadly more often than not the tone will take a bit of a sad turn as someone points out that if that were possible so and so would be here with us tonight.

As I said its just a hunch as I haven't search for any scientific studies to back it up. :-)
But I do acknowledge that both of the above reasons do play a part in my personal decision not to tow over the manufactures specs - even though it may not be under by much.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:50 AM   #165
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My sense is that people advocating exceeding stated maximums don't really have facts, what they have is empirical evidence. They haven't had a problem so it must be okay. It's like saying it's safe to play Russian Roulette because they haven't yet died. I don't know how many chambers there are in their revolver but the bullets are named inexperience, weather, vehicle condition, some other idiot, their particular tow/trailer weights and probably others.

From their perspective it's all a conspiracy or hidden capacities or "the man" holding them back or making them buy something they don't want or they're all smarter than the rest of us who are sheepeople anyhow or they're letting us in on a secret… etc ad nauseum.

The problem some have is that their theory is being promoted to newbies. The very people who are least experienced to judge these opinions. I think their advice might be better tolerated if presented along the lines of "I don't necessarily recommend this to a novice but what I do is…."

Nothing will remove the risk of moving about except staying at home. Everyone must make the choice about how much risk they're prepared to accept in their life or impose on those that ride with them. If that person blindly accepts advice from someone they don't know, I'm afraid there's not much anyone else can do.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:01 PM   #166
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My sense is that people advocating exceeding stated maximums don't really have facts, what they have is empirical evidence. They haven't had a problem so it must be okay. It's like saying it's safe to play Russian Roulette because they haven't yet died. I don't know how many chambers there are in their revolver but the bullets are named inexperience, weather, vehicle condition, some other idiot, their particular tow/trailer weights and probably others.

From their perspective it's all a conspiracy or hidden capacities or "the man" holding them back or making them buy something they don't want or they're all smarter than the rest of us who are sheepeople anyhow or they're letting us in on a secret… etc ad nauseum.

The problem some have is that their theory is being promoted to newbies. The very people who are least experienced to judge these opinions. I think their advice might be better tolerated if presented along the lines of "I don't necessarily recommend this to a novice but what I do is…."

Nothing will remove the risk of moving about except staying at home. Everyone must make the choice about how much risk they're prepared to accept in their life or impose on those that ride with them. If that person blindly accepts advice from someone they don't know, I'm afraid there's not much anyone else can do.
Steve;
Ratings aside, when you turn the key... There's a bullet in every chamber!
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:09 PM   #167
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Very well said, Steve!
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:19 PM   #168
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Carol,

I'm sure you won't be surprised that ove the years I've gone to dangeroustrailers.org a number of times. More importantly I've read thru the cases to see what type of trailer was involved and what kind of tow vehicle. Mostly they seem to be non-travel trailers and mostly they seem to be towed by rated large tow vehicles. Certainly that deserves mentioning as well.

Accidents are awful to consider. Fortunately trailer accidents are comparitively rare and travel trailer accidents rarer yet. Alcohol and speed overwhelm this class of accidents yet we drink, drug and speed.....

As to newbies and my towing example, people need to make their own decisions and be prepared to live with the consequences... but make the decision from knowledgeask Galileo.
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