Please tell us your Motivation - Page 7 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-01-2012, 10:02 PM   #85
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To the OP....here's my comments on "my motivation for towing over the limits". Almost 25 years ago I was towing a small enclosed cargo trailer with our dirt bikes in it to go to races. I towed with the car I had, because it was what I had and what I could afford. I towed for about a year with it, and finally decided it was just not sufficient to tow safely, so I sold the car and bought a pick up truck to pull it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #86
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How about them Mets?
Dang what the heck happened to the Canucks? how can you win your conference and then get blown out the first round?
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:18 PM   #87
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The average elevation of Europe is just under 1000ft.
The average elevation of N.America is just over 2000ft.
I was planning a joke about gravity, but hey... This could go a long ways in explaining the different tow ratings.
It could also explain the regional differences in N.America in the real need for TV size.
Heck ...And I was hoping to "prove" Europe has less gravity!
(and to show that the same is true about the subject at hand)
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #88
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For fun and perspective gravity and air...

Floyd - for fun....

Actually surface variations of the earth are very small compared to the radius of the earth. Surface variations (hills and mountains) are the order of less than 1 part in a 1000. Gravity is related mostly to the volume of the earth and to a much lessor extent surface variation caused by hills and mountains.

The load on a tow vehicle has multiple components - weight being one and certainly a factor when climbing steep hills.

Head winds and air in general represent a surprisingly significant load. Anyone who drives into a head wind can attest to it's effect on mpg.

Air itself is a real load. Each time a trailer moves one trailer length it has to move about 50 lbs of air. In a mile of travel it has to displace 20,000 lbs or 10 tons of air. For a test, stick your hand out the window and feel the pressure than consider how big of a hand the trailer is. (Another reason not to have a roof AC, imagine the force on the front of that air conditioner compared to your hand)

As well one must consider that air density decreases with altitude, why baseballs historically travel further in Denver.

A little perspective on air and the load it presents to our tow vehicles.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:36 AM   #89
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To the OP....here's my comments on "my motivation for towing over the limits". Almost 25 years ago I was towing a small enclosed cargo trailer with our dirt bikes in it to go to races. I towed with the car I had, because it was what I had and what I could afford. I towed for about a year with it, and finally decided it was just not sufficient to tow safely, so I sold the car and bought a pick up truck to pull it.
My experience was similar but the outcome somewhat different.

Back in the 70's my Dad towed a 19' Golden Falcon with a big V8, 1972 Ford LTD.
Because it was set up for towing I borrowed it to tow a 1967 Dodge GT (on a car hauler). It was not well ballanced and did not have a WDH or sway control. Took the back roads home because it didn't handle well at all.

Fast forward 40 years later: Now from the full sized car to a mid sized V6 sport sedan. A pro set up that uses a custom receiver, WDH with sway control, and all the technology that makes modern vehicles so much better than the old iron.

The combination today is a dream to drive. Stabilty, braking, starting, stopping, fuel economy, is just great.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:39 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
Floyd - for fun....

Actually surface variations of the earth are very small compared to the radius of the earth. Surface variations (hills and mountains) are the order of less than 1 part in a 1000. Gravity is related mostly to the volume of the earth and to a much lessor extent surface variation caused by hills and mountains.

The load on a tow vehicle has multiple components - weight being one and certainly a factor when climbing steep hills.

Head winds and air in general represent a surprisingly significant load. Anyone who drives into a head wind can attest to it's effect on mpg.

Air itself is a real load. Each time a trailer moves one trailer length it has to move about 50 lbs of air. In a mile of travel it has to displace 20,000 lbs or 10 tons of air. For a test, stick your hand out the window and feel the pressure than consider how big of a hand the trailer is. (Another reason not to have a roof AC, imagine the force on the front of that air conditioner compared to your hand)

As well one must consider that air density decreases with altitude, why baseballs historically travel further in Denver.

A little perspective on air and the load it presents to our tow vehicles.
Did you think this was serious?...
"Heck ...And I was hoping to "prove" Europe has less gravity!
(and to show that the same is true about the subject at hand)"

But seriously, you have hit on a point which I have tried to make many times here without success.Every TV manufacturer includes "frontal area" in their tow ratings, yet it is largely ignored, as if weight were the only important factor.
Sometimes an empty box trailer can prove to be more of a "load" than a loaded open car trailer in the right conditions.
Air density decreases with altitude which causes the tow vehicle to suffer a loss of power(even with electronic engine controls) which would offset at least some of the gain. Consider that the baseball travels further in Denver, but not enough further to make-up for the adverse effect on a chubby batter's running performance.
It is true that there are many variables. The truth is that while the cited average elevation difference is interesting, the extremes are not comensurately so, which renders any related argument facetious,
both as it applies to air density and to the "gravity" of the argument.

BTW; Would that be the "mass" of the earth as opposed to the "volume"?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:23 AM   #91
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BTW; Would that be the "mass" of the earth as opposed to the "volume"?
That's what Mr. Newton thought.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #92
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I suspect Raz that Newton was correct in this case as you know Mass is a measure of the quantity of matter present in an object. Volume is a measure of how much space it occupies.

Mass is used in the calculation of gravity. The weight of an object is the force of gravity on the object and may be defined as the mass times the acceleration of gravity, w = mg. Since the weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #93
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Kidding

Floyd,

I ws kidding as well thinking this thread could use information and smiles... though I think it's not often understood how smooth the earth is compared to it's radius.

As to my comments on air, I had recently received a question about towing and I calculated how much air needs to be moved in a mile and what it weighs.

Having to displace air is another reason to take it easy; the power required to over come air resistance increases as the cube of the velocity, 65 mph requires 67% more energy than 55 mph.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:12 PM   #94
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Floyd,

I ws kidding as well thinking this thread could use information and smiles... though I think it's not often understood how smooth the earth is compared to it's radius.

As to my comments on air, I had recently received a question about towing and I calculated how much air needs to be moved in a mile and what it weighs.

Having to displace air is another reason to take it easy; the power required to over come air resistance increases as the cube of the velocity, 65 mph requires 67% more energy than 55 mph.
Which is why my Escape loves 57MPH and hates 65MPH when towing. While it will do it, it costs 5 to 7MPG to get it done. Air handling is also a large part of why the Scamp 13 tows so well. Oddly enough my bikes don't seem to matter much,and they are on the front of the trailer.
57mph is right on the sweet spot for my combo for all factors of power, speed an gearing.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #95
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The original question was about one's motivation to exceed manufacturer's recommended towing limits.

My take from the answers (on topic) so far is that there are two major considerations. First, is whether towing a heavier trailer creates a safety hazard and secondly, whether it creates a risk of damaging the tow vehicle.

I get the sense that few here would knowingly create a hazard to others, but some are willing to accept the risk of overheating their transmission for instance, or creating excessive wear on their clutch.

So, perhaps it would help in future discussions to parse the discussion toward the safety or durability risk as opposed to lumping both issues together.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:20 PM   #96
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So, perhaps it would help in future discussions to parse the discussion toward the safety or durability risk as opposed to lumping both issues together.

LOL thats a nice suggestion Thomas but I suspect it will not work as you will note that there are really only a handful of folks here who are willing to acknowledge they are towing over the manufactures tow ratings and dont see the connect between the two issues. While on the other hand you have a whole lot more folks who believe the two issues are very much connected and therefore when this topic is raised the two will be unavoidable be lumped together.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:52 PM   #97
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Interesting article on wind resistance and frontal area of your tv and trailer. Seems that weight is not the only factor we need to consider when towing, frontal area is another factor.
Trailer Towing Experience : Ford Flex Forum
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:55 PM   #98
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LOL that's a nice suggestion Thomas but I suspect it will not work ............
OK, maybe I'll work on something simple like world peace, instead........
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