RAV4 people: why is my hitch only 4 inches off the ground?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Glenn and Jon -
The WD head in your photos - specifically the angle-adjusting teeth - doesn't look like the one in either model of Eaz-Lift WD system by Camco. Is the online documentation just outdated, or do you both have some other model of WD system?

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Pro Series. This is tag on one of the bars.

Ah, right, you mentioned the brand before (perhaps in another thread). Thanks

I guess I was confused by this:

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

deryk asked for some information about the set up of my Camco EasyLift hitch...

... since Jon and Glenn appear to have the same system, which turns out to not be EAZ-Lift (or "EasyLift") at all.

PRO SERIES™ ROUND BAR
I see that in the installation instructions (N495698.pdf) they seem to use the chain length for fine force adjustment, and the head tilt for coarse adjustment:

If there are no more chain links for adjustment, the head assembly must be tilted forward

... and vice versa (if the the chain gets too short, tilt the head backward), since they start in the middle. I think this is a generally lousy set of adjustment instructions.

Still, if the bars are level and the force is right, I see no reason to change the head tilt, since that would mess up either the final bar angle or the force applied.

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I think it is perspective: like almost every other travel trailer, the tongue is an A-frame, so looking at it from above the height of the frame makes the front look like it might be higher.

To judge frame attitude accurately in a photo, the camera would need to be at frame height.

I looked at a couple pictures on Escape's web site - they look the same as Glenn's picture. The appear to have a slight "S" bend about where it comes out from under the body. But I don't know if it actually points up at all - like you said, a picture from a low angle would be needed.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, the head angle controls the starting angle of the spring bars, and is used to adjust spring bar force when applied. If the head is tilted back but the force is to be kept the same, the chains would need to be lengthened, to accommodate the bars being tilted down to the rear more.

Why make this change? The spring bars are level now, as they are supposed to be. Yes, the head is at or near the extreme forward tilt position, but that is the inevitable result of applying relatively little force compared to the capacity of the WD system.

Sorry, but looks like a poorly setup WDH. A properly designed and installed hitch would have the ball vertical and the bars horizontal. That looks like a way over sized WDH - tilted ball forward to lower preload on too strong bars so they could be pulled up level at correct loading. And making the ball straight up would cause the bars to hang down, possibly dragging.

I am picky about details. I would put lower load bars so I could tilt the ball back and still have them level.

And it looks like loading the bars would twist the adjustable hitch all the way forward. That top bolt would have to very tight or have "splines" to keep it where you set it. In a "break over" situation the hitch ball stud would impact the trailer hitch mechanism causing damage.

Going through a dip or deep driveway would be no problem, but crest a steep driveway in a parking lot and it may bind. Park the RAV4 back tyres on a tall speed bump and see how much room there is. The length of the Escape may make this a mute point.

Jason

[SilverGhost]

Ah, and I looked at the picture Glenn posted of his model number - 600lb. I looked up the single axle Escape - 17' heaviest is a 2100lb plan B with dry tongue weight 250lb. So using a 600lb spring bar for, say 350lb loaded, tongue weight?

That, I think, answers my question as to why the ball is tilted all the way forward. Do they make light spring bars?

Jason

[Glenn Baglo]

"That looks like a way over sized WDH - tilted ball forward" - Jason

I don't understand what you mean by "tilted ball forward". Which way is forward? As I look at it, if there is any tilt it's to the rear ( IE. toward the trailer hitch ). But, I think it's all moot. It's been working just fine for almost five years. It was installed at the factory. Next time I hook up, I will shoot new pix.

[Jon Vermilye]

I'll have to look at the manual which it currently in the trailer at a RV dealer replacing the tires. As far as I know, the hitch is a Camco Easy Lift elite, but maybe there is a specific model number. I'll check both tomorrow when I pick up the trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

Sorry, but looks like a poorly setup WDH. A properly designed and installed hitch would have the ball vertical and the bars horizontal. That looks like a way over sized WDH - tilted ball forward to lower preload on too strong bars so they could be pulled up level at correct loading. And making the ball straight up would cause the bars to hang down, possibly dragging.

I am picky about details. I would put lower load bars so I could tilt the ball back and still have them level.

I agree that the WD system is overly stiff, but the ball tilt is for force adjustment, not (for instance) to account for out-of-level hitch receiver boxes. For this WD on this vehicle, the head needs to be tilted toward the low-force direction. There's no way to get a vertical head and horizontal bars and the right load transfer ("weight distribution") at the same time unless you have an unlimited selection of spring bars. If you're right off the bottom of the spring bar selection, you're likely going to be off to the forward-tilted end of the head tilt adjustment... and the "600 pound" bars are the lightest for this model of WD system, which is why I have previously expressed my similar concern that it is too stiff for the application.

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

And it looks like loading the bars would twist the adjustable hitch all the way forward. That top bolt would have to very tight or have "splines" to keep it where you set it.

The tilt adjustment does have teeth - see the photos or the installation instructions which I linked. This is an issue with all WD systems - there is a lot of torque on that head. Systems without teeth usually use washers as shims so controlling the tilt is not dependent on just clamping friction.

I don't see how either of these RAV4/Escape configurations is any different from other WD setups in this respect. The head tilt doesn't change in operation, so the bar load wouldn't twist it any more than with any other WD system, or with any other adjustment of this WD system.

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

In a "break over" situation the hitch ball stud would impact the trailer hitch mechanism causing damage.

Yes, limited pitch movement in that direction is a concern if the head tilt is too much. Is it really too much?

[Jon Vermilye]

Here are the teeth on a Camco Easy Lift elite:

[deryk]

Yeah this model is different looking then the link on Amazon that I bought. But adjusting it you tip the ball back towards the trailer a bit...then attach the chains and take measurements of the front and rear vehicle axles and compare it to without trailer and with the trailer without wdh hooked up.

Realistically how close can you get the rear height without a trailer attached without going crazy....I saw the picture once of a car with no rear tires...

[gmw photos]

Regarding the set up of these particular hitches, I'd suggest simply going by the hitch manufacturers instructions.
On my BlueOx, they specify an angle of the head, and then also a final angle for the bars.
The weight bars have essentially a "range" of tongue weight they are suited for. In my case, I chose 550 pound bars, and the range is a min tongue weight of 350.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I don't understand what you mean by "tilted ball forward". Which way is forward?

I'll admit "forward" is a bit sloppy, but "rotated about the lateral axis counter-clockwise as viewed fron the driver's side" seemed a bit awkward.
By "tilted forward", I mean the ball which is mounted on top of the pivoting head component is forward (toward the tug). Since the bolt holding it runs through a fixed hole in the shank (and a curved slot in the tilting head), that puts the extra slot length and teeth of the moveable head forward of the bolt.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

Here are the teeth on a Camco Easy Lift elite...

That's the photo which triggered my question: it looks nothing like (in the details) Camco's product (which is EAZ-Lift, not Easy Lift) on their website, but exactly like the Pro Series (from Cequent). As I said, the operation is the same either way, but the hardware details are different.

[lpk49]

deryk-did you get your wdh together? is it working? e-trailer won't pay shipping for me to send my PS499902 back. i really wanted the 01 but they talked me into the 02 since the other was back-ordered. i paid $257.95 for it and shipping would be $72.00

do you think i could sell it on craig's list? i'll post it here too...but i dont think there are that many people close and it will be expensive to ship.

[deryk]

Mine is together...

didn't get to play around with it this weekend, my back is still sore from saturday(I have a fused disk in my lumbar region) I overdid it hauling 40lb bags of topsoil and mulch for the front of my parents house. I really need a pickup since my dad got rid of his van. my rav4's backseat was packed full 2 trips from home depot.

Im heading out friday morning will try to remember to take measurements before and after hooking it up to see how much the front end comes back closer to height of being unhooked and the rear end rise.

If your not happy with what they sent you they want you to pay to ship it back to them? You could put it on craigslist...Good Luck!

[Glenn Baglo]

You might want to use it with the Tacoma. I wouldn't sell it yet. Have you towed with your new combo. The WDH might give you a better, less bouncy ride.

[lpk49]

i know glenn...but i am so broke right now. i put almost a 1000 into the rav and then it didnt work. i wont give it away-but for now i dont go more than 15 miles from the house on flat roads...and i dont have to go if its windy...and there arent many moose down here so i think i will be ok.

i towed it 5 miles from shop to shop and hardly knew it was there-and the brakes worked i guess...they didnt squeal or lock up or anything

i have to sell the uhaul class III hitch and the breakaway battery too...we'll see which goes first.

[SilverGhost]

Sorry if I missed part of the story. What has gone so horribly wrong that you have to sell the RAV4? Or more accurately, what happened that you cannot safely tow the Casita with the RAV4?

Is it more of your comfort with the setup, or the process of getting hitched? I think I remember you stating you liked how your Silverado was just hitch and go.

Jason

[lpk49]

i do like to "hitch and go"...i have hand arthritis and also i cant walk well so need a TV i can really trust.

i'm really new tho and dont know all the terms etc...it would be better if deryk or jon or the others who followed this with ravs answer you...

the casita 17 deluxe seems to be heavier than most campers here-esp the TW - so i guess it is a combo of the car and the camper and me being a newbie and not as strong as i used to be

[deryk]

From what I've read hooking up the wdh might be a bit much for her so she is going to try her Tacoma with out it....also comfort factor with the truck vs the Rav4

[lpk49]

it does seem kinda wierd tho that the toyota rav manual says dont use a wdh and the etrailer salesman could look up which wdh is right for the rav

i didnt know the manual said that until it was posted on here

[Jon Vermilye]

It depends on the year of the RAV4. My 2010 Sport model manual has no "don't use a WDH" statement.

I believe the problem is with the tongue weight limit of the RAV4. It is 350 lbs, and the Casita 17's are generally well over that.