Rear wheel drive vs 4x4 pickup truck?

[vintageracer]

4 Wheel Drive and/or All Wheel Drive is by far the BEST option you can buy on any new or used vehicle IF it's available from a VEHICLE RESALE VALUE standpoint when it comes time to re-sell your truck, SUV or car. And you will at some point re-sell your truck, SUV or car.

All you have to do is frequent the dealer auctions such as Manheim or your local yocal auto auction as I do (Licensed Dealer) to see this fact. 4WD or AWD typically only adds $2K to the purchase price of most any new Truck. The wholesale price different between the same make/model truck with 4WD/AWD and and a 2WD rarely if ever is less than the retail window sticker price of the 4WD option when new. There are many trucks where the USED price difference between a 4WD/AWD truck and the exact same truck with 2WD can be worth as much as 20%-40% LESS for the 2WD truck which is far more than the original cost of the 4WD/AWD option when new!

The fact is that 4WD/AWD has become a much larger part of the new/used truck market. Prices can fluctuate even more so depending upon where you live in the USA. It's tough tell sell a 2WD drive truck in Montana where that same 2WD truck will sell in Tennessee. This market trend can also be very regional. Move outside from most any major metropolitan area by just 35-50 miles to the "country" and a 2WD truck can be a very tough sell!

Example:

In Nashville it's no problem to sell a NONE 4WD/AWD truck. Move 30 miles outside Nashville and the used car dealers will not buy for resale at auction a 2WD truck unless it's CHEAP! Why? Hard to sell! The country folks "think" they must have 4WD. In reality do they really need 4WD? Hell NO! However they "THINK" they need 4WD and therefore that is all they will buy. We haven't even spoken about all the young truck buyers that must have a "Diesel 4WD truck". Same can be said for the new car store car lots out in the country particularly when it comes to trucks. Lot's of 4WD trucks on the lots with just a few 2WD trucks.

2WD truck trades?

Sure I will take 2WD truck in on trade. I also take these same 2WD trucks directly to the Manheim wholesale auction in Nashville where these same 2WD trucks will bring "Mo Money" WHOLESALE than we can sell them for RETAIL on our lot out in the country.

Does this all mean that everyone should buy 4WD/AWD in their truck?

Heavens NO!

Just remember that there is no single other option available on any new truck that will return more of your original expenditure on that option than 4WD/AWD. This difference can be even greater on the used truck market!

This is just another consideration you should think about when buying a new to you Truck. My point is nothing more than that.

Given the number of new trucks and even more so new cars and SUV's offered by the manufacturer's with AWD I only see this price difference on the resale market between 2WD and 4WD/AWD continuing to become even greater.

[Tom Cantrell]

I hear that a good definition of a 4x4 is a vehicle that gets stuck farther off the road. Some of y'all are way oversold on a 4x4.

[Kevin K]

I tow with a 1999 Silverado 2 wheel drive. Pulls the trailer just fine in summer. When there is 4" of snow on the roads, without the trailer, then not so good.(to light in the back end)
95% time no 4WD needed
5% time 4WD needed (IF I had it)

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by Kevin K

I tow with a 1999 Silverado 2 wheel drive. Pulls the trailer just fine in summer. When there is 4" of snow on the roads, without the trailer, then not so good.(to light in the back end)
95% time no 4WD needed
5% time 4WD needed (IF I had it)

And that's kind of the deal. You can get away without 4wd, but you have to be a lot smarter about how you drive, and have a little luck thrown in there.

My truck, for example, has a locking rear differential. I've used it once. Had I not had it, I would have needed someone to hook up a tow rope and pull me out. So no, I don't need the locking diff. But it sure was nice that one time...

4wd on some levels is the same way. You might only "need" 4wd 5-10% of the time. But if you need it, you need it...And especially in places where there is snow, it's really, really nice.

I'd say there is a very small percentage of the population who really just couldn't do what they do without 4wd. I've been part of that at times, though not so much anymore. The rest of us just need to make a call based on our own personal comfort level, as to whether we want the extra security of 4wd.

It can be the difference between getting down a certain road or not. But do you need to go down that road? It can be the difference between getting out of slick/gravelly spot on your own, or waiting for someone to come along and pull you out. Either way, chances are, you're getting out.

The cost of 4wd system maintenance always comes up, and it's not a myth, but I don't know...I mean you could say the same for having a truck vs a car. And even for having any automobile at all. Not having one means thousands and thousands of dollars you don't spend.

On top of the actual cost of owning any automobile at all, the "extra" cost of 4wd on top of that is fairly small in the scope of things.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Tom Cantrell

I hear that a good definition of a 4x4 is a vehicle that gets stuck farther off the road. Some of y'all are way oversold on a 4x4.

could not agree more especially when its a Truck! And it can happen more often than not while even on the main road or at least that has been my observation while traveling on the Canada's Hwy 1 in the winter.

[68dave]

My dad bought a brand new Dodge Ram 2wd back in 04. He was cheap and didn't want pony up the extra $$$ for a 4x4, he regrets that decision to this day. I've had to pull him out of his yard 3 times already with my 4x4 Toyota because his rear wheels were spinning on wet grass. Wet grass, not mud! And his tires aren't bald. He works security at a hospital at night. When it snows i either have to drive him to work & back in one of my Toyota 4x4's or lend him one (i own 3) until the roads are cleared. Trade in value & resale value is so low that he feels like he's stuck with it.

[BigT]

Hello;
My spouse and I, have towed 25 foot 5th wheels and then a 16 foot Boler with a 2 wheel drive V6 Nissan Frontier. Now we pull a 13 foot Boler with a 4L 2 wheel drive Ford Ranger and a 4 cyl front wheel drive Chev. Cavalier convert. without any problem. I can see having 4 wheel drive if you are pulling in snow or maybe on rougher terrain, but across Canada I can't see needing 4 wheel drive for the most part. However, most vehicles allow you to switch out to 2 wheel drive when you don't need it.
Many experts recommend the shortest distance from the rear wheels to the hitch which often is not a pickup truck but rather a sedan or Suv.
The shorter the overhang, the greater the stability when towing.
All the best,
Big T

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I had a Toyota Chinook - 2wd Toyota pickup with an RV built on the back. It got me some places...

Where did you take those pictures? Look like places I would like to add to my list.

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Where did you take those pictures? Look like places I would like to add to my list.

Well I can't be too free with my favorite escape places over an internet forum which are already getting overrun, worse and worse every year...

But I'll say the desert photos are southern Utah, mountain photos are just outside North Cascades National Park (WA). First photo is outside of Moab. Moab's on the map so there's nothing left to spoil there. Down the Kane Creek Rd.

I spend a lot of time in southern Utah.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by Tom Cantrell

I hear that a good definition of a 4x4 is a vehicle that gets stuck farther off the road. Some of y'all are way oversold on a 4x4.

I learned that as "The only thing 4WD does for you is make the places you get stuck a h3ll of a lot more expensive to get towed out of."

Once upon a time, I was one of those folks who explored the Great West off-road in my Jeep. I'm older and wiser now. I don't do off-roading adventures much any more, but I still buy 4WD trucks and here's why:

1) On a standard 2WD vehicle, it's really only one wheel drive. When one tire spins, you're stuck. End of story. Limited slip and locking rear ends help, but they're not the same solution as having another drive axle in a different location. A locking rear end on TWO axles is a much better solution.

2) As has been said above, they don't add much to the cost of a new truck, but they can add thousands to the resale value.

3) I've gotten stuck on wet grass and on soggy ground in campgrounds trying to get the trailer out of a campsite. 4-low makes walking out of those kinds of places easy and without furrowing the ground, or slinging mud up all over everything and tearing the sod up.

4) I tow a landscape trailer with a 26hp Kubota tractor in nasty weather conditions as I do snow removal at one of my apartment buildings 30 miles from where I live. 4-high adds stability on roads with poor traction. It doesn't mean you can drive faster, it just means that you have better traction control than you'd have with 2WD so you're not as likely to "lose it" under conditions of reduced traction.

5) I have a 21' Precision sailboat that I trailer-sail on a local lake. 4-low makes coming up a wet ramp with a 2500lb boat and trailer a piece of cake.

I just traded off my '07 FJ 'Cruiser for a '16 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon with a six-speed manual transmission, and locking Dana 44 rear ends on both ends of the Jeep. The running gear is up to towing tractors and launching and recovering sailboats. I have been impressed with how well it handled the landscape trailer and tractor... MUCH better than the FJ did.

I bought it new because a new one was only $4k more than buying a '14 or '15 model with 25k miles on them. They hold their resale amazingly well. And Chrysler offered a lifetime, no mileage limit warranty. This may be the last car (Jeep) I need to buy before I'm too old to drive (I'm 60, btw) so it may just be my estate that is concerned about resale on this one.

So, yes, 4WD adds cost and complexity to a truck. It also adds a measure of bad-weather peace of mind, and high-traction, low, low gearing when you need it that a 2WD just can't do.

[Paul O.]

Thanks for telling. I can leave Kane Creek to others. Once we had a rented a Jeep and drove the Shafer Trail. It was about right for me, white knuckled for my wife, but absolutely beautiful. I was told they used to drive uranium ore trucks up that road in the '50s.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Well I can't be too free with my favorite escape places over an internet forum which are already getting overrun, worse and worse every year...

But I'll say the desert photos are southern Utah, mountain photos are just outside North Cascades National Park (WA). First photo is outside of Moab. Moab's on the map so there's nothing left to spoil there. Down the Kane Creek Rd.

I spend a lot of time in southern Utah.

Ok Zach, since we're showing what 2WD can do with decent tires and competent driving... Frankly I was really concerned that I was going to bury my moho in the sand, but the duals floated it pretty well.

[PC Steve]

When I decided to get a new truck, I chose to include a healthy margin of capacity. To me, that was a 4wd crew cab v8 Chevy. I don't off-road recreationally, too hard on the equipment. On the other hand, towing even a small trailer takes you off pavement with extra load and awkward wheel angles. You don't save a lot by going smaller and I can afford the gas. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I also bought a tow strap, in case I can be a good neighbor.

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Thanks for telling. I can leave Kane Creek to others. Once we had a rented a Jeep and drove the Shafer Trail. It was about right for me, white knuckled for my wife, but absolutely beautiful. I was told they used to drive uranium ore trucks up that road in the '50s.

Unfortunately most of southern Utah, and all of Moab is crawling with those side-by-side ATVs. Those things are fun, and really come in handy for certain kinds of work. But it seems like since they've come out, everyone and their mother, grandmother, second cousin and long lost great nephew are tearing down every once-deserted desert road I used to like to drive...

You could always pm me for something a little more specific.

Anyway.

What I could do in the motorhome will be different than what I can do with a trailer. I don't know yet what kind of roads I can take it down. I really have no experience driving trailers in general, but none at all down dirt roads with steep, sudden approach and departure angles along with "dips" in the road caused by spring runoff. That's what happened here...



But we're getting off topic

[ZachO]

Yeah Roger, that terrain doesn't look challenging, but I know sand...You can get buried in that stuff really fast. I'm always cautious of sand. The narrow pizza cutter tires I had on the Chinook probably wouldn't not have floated on that sand...

I got myself out of the situation above, after 3 hours of jacking and rock-stacking. I got stuck a couple weeks later in loose sand. That time I had to wait for a truck to come along and pull me out. No way I was getting out on my own. I just pulled off the main dirt road into a spot I saw with a fire ring. I was immediately buried to my axles.

I always carry a tow strap.

[Roger H]

Zach, Great photos!

That was at Sand Mountain Recreation Area in Nevada. I was on the "road" that is used heavily by RVs and trailers with sand rails, so I was a little more adventurous than I probably would have been otherwise. It just looked more desolate in the photos, and if I'd gotten buried I could have been towed out pretty easily.

Those long rear overhangs will get you every time! If you'd been in a jeep, you'd have just rolled through that without even blinking! When you're towing the trailer in these places, think just like you were driving the Chinook... your trailer will have equally long overhangs in both directions with very little ground clearance, and you won't be able to turn it around in the same kind of space you turned the Chinook in, so you'll need to do a little more recon without the trailer sometimes.

Anyone who off-roads without a tow strap is just living foolishly.

This was the latest thing in off-road desert camping in 1981... I took this setup ALL over the Anza Borrego Desert in SoCal.

My 1981 Jeep Scrambler and 1976 Scamp travel trailer by Roger H, on Flickr

[ZachO]

That looks great. And looking at the clearance, I'm glad to hear you got it around some places. My Bigfoot should be back from the trailer shop today with the new, straight axle, so it'll have a lot more clearance.

I think a lot of what I'll do is park the camper, and just take the truck on day trips down more crazy roads. But I am used to getting the Chinook back into places that are more deserted and out of the way. I'll probably miss that a bit with the trailer.

[Tom Cantrell]

I'm going to put tank tracks on my truck so I can get to places I don't even want to go!

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by Tom Cantrell

I'm going to put tank tracks on my truck so I can get to places I don't even want to go!

That sounds like a great idea, Tom! If my motorhome had a tag axle I'd even consider that. It'd work a LOT better in the sand!

Or with your 2WD towing a trailer, you can just get stuck any ol' place you park when you least expect it with fewer resources at your disposal than those who choose to have 4WD. Any grassy, soft campsite can turn into a real challenge to get out of with an overnight soaking rain.

All that those of us who are 4WD adherents are trying to do is to help folks learn vicariously from our failures and travails so they won't have to. I'm a slow learner, and I've made just about every mistake that I think there is to make in 4WD and trailering. And of course I was making those mistakes in the '70s and '80s before the internet and there were few good resources from which to learn vicariously.

On the other hand, some folks still choose to learn their lessons first hand and the hard way, and that's entirely up to them.

Vaya con Dios, mi amigo.

[ZachO]

Of all the places I wanted to get but couldn't in the probably 6 months I spent in the desert over the last two years, the only limiting factor was clearance. 2wd wasn't ever the issue. It was that long overhang in the back of the Chinook, and clearance.

Traction definitely does play into things too, especially once you're out of the dry desert. But for me, it's always been an issue of clearance. Some 2wd trucks have more clearance than others.

Some people have no interest in going down roads that would require clearance or more traction.

But yeah, getting stuck in a developed campground can and does happen with a 2wd, rear wheel drive pickup.

What this forum is great for is for people to hear every side of the story, and make an informed decision on what will work best for them.