Scamp 13 axle '95 - arm angle up or down? - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-11-2010, 08:58 AM   #1
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Scamp 13 axle '95 - arm angle up or down?

Hello,
I have had to replace my axle on my 95 Scamp. I took off the old axle and it the arm is forward "leading" and is at a down angle. It is a Torflex - Dexter. I have received from Scamp one that is correct in all ways except that the arm is angled up. I think they have shipped the wrong one by mistake. I would appreciate if someone might verify that mid nineties 13 ft Scamps had an arm that angled down from the axle. The manual on the Scamp website mentions the axle I have - down angle. The axle I took off appears to be original. Thank you very much. I have a similar post on Yahoo Scamps - thanks to those that responded. Mike
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:00 PM   #2
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Mike,

There may be some helpful info in this thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...e-43280-2.html
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:56 PM   #3
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Thanks

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Originally Posted by Raya L. View Post
Mike,

There may be some helpful info in this thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...e-43280-2.html
Raya,
Thank you.
I have been able to verify that my down turned axle at rest is original equipment. Mike
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:29 PM   #4
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Good to know you aren't nuts, eh?

Funny that Scamp wouldn't have known that, or at least had a memory jog when you mentioned what you thought you knew (and did indeed know).

Raya

PS: Are you going to pursue a different axle now? Or make that one work somehow?
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mike Fing View Post
Raya,
Thank you.
I have been able to verify that my down turned axle at rest is original equipment. Mike
Is that a 1200# or a 2200# axle? Just curious, I'm trying to compile some info. '95 should be getting close to the last leading arm axle on a Scamp.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raya L. View Post
Good to know you aren't nuts, eh?


Funny that Scamp wouldn't have known that, or at least had a memory jog when you mentioned what you thought you knew (and did indeed know).

Raya

PS: Are you going to pursue a different axle now? Or make that one work somehow?
Raya,

Yes, good to verify. A fellow Scamp owner in Maine with a 95 sent me a pic of his that looked the same. After that I knew mine must be original equipment.
Lots of minor model changes over the years and a shipping mistake was made.The owner of Scamp, Mr. Eveland, was able to sort things out very quickly once I explained the parts problem to him. The correct axle has been shipped out and Scamp will be shipping the incorrect one back for me. This is good service in my books and I will be very pleased to get my Scamp back on its wheels. Sure missed it. Mike
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raya L. View Post
Good to know you aren't nuts, eh?

Funny that Scamp wouldn't have known that, or at least had a memory jog when you mentioned what you thought you knew (and did indeed know).

Raya

PS: Are you going to pursue a different axle now? Or make that one work somehow?
Oh - your question about making it work...to make the angle up axle work would have required a four inch spacer to make up the at rest angle difference which I was advised not to do by several people in the repair field. (22.5 up newer style axle plus 22.5 down - my axle would equal 45 degree difference)
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Is that a 1200# or a 2200# axle? Just curious, I'm trying to compile some info. '95 should be getting close to the last leading arm axle on a Scamp.
Hi Floyd,
It is a Dexter, I think it is a 2200#, leading arm, 22.5 degrees down at rest. I am not sure when the switch was made to trailing arm officially at Scamp - 2000 perhaps? It would be interesting to know. My understanding from reading the posts on this forum is that trailing arm is a better design. I know that some Boler folks have made the change. I know that there are posts about doing the switch on this forum. My 95 pulls great with the leading arm, so I really just want to keep it original. I suppose it does a little more hopping over bumps than a trailing design would.

My understanding of what Scamp offers now in terms of parts is older style 70-80's leading 10 degrees down, 90's leading 22.5 down, and the new style - trailing at 22.5 up. This is what the picture I am getting - roughly. The exact dates I am not sure. Thanks, Mike

Interestingly, I spoke to an engineer at Dexter in the past few weeks he said that all Dexter axles ever made were intended to be trailing arm. Thanks, Mike
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:15 PM   #9
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Sounds like they are giving you good service now, so that's good (although it sounds like you had to "prove" you were right).

That's interesting information on the two different leading arm axle "degrees." I had heard that the early (70s) leading arm axles actually came with an "up" angle, but it makes more sense (to me, who is trying to grasp it and is no expert) that they would have been "down" since the axle itself is sitting "up" in the dinette floor section.

As an egg owner with a leading arm axle setup, I wonder what the practical differences between the 10 degree down and the 22.5 degree down would be if one were to go for a replacement? At-rest height would be higher, right? Would the down-the-road behavior change, I wonder?

Raya

PS: Oh, I meant to ask: Does your new axle have brakes? If not, would they have been an option?
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:10 PM   #10
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For the Dexter # 9 a 10 down at full load the center of the spindle is 0.08" above the top of the bracket, that is above the center of the rotation for the torsion arm. In other words, a 10 down actually runs up in use.
For a 22.5 down it's 1.22" below the top of the bracket, (the standard bracket is 2.88") essentially running parallel. If not slightly up since the tube size is 2.17".
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:18 PM   #11
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raya L. View Post
Sounds like they are giving you good service now, so that's good (although it sounds like you had to "prove" you were right).

That's interesting information on the two different leading arm axle "degrees." I had heard that the early (70s) leading arm axles actually came with an "up" angle, but it makes more sense (to me, who is trying to grasp it and is no expert) that they would have been "down" since the axle itself is sitting "up" in the dinette floor section.

As an egg owner with a leading arm axle setup, I wonder what the practical differences between the 10 degree down and the 22.5 degree down would be if one were to go for a replacement? At-rest height would be higher, right? Would the down-the-road behavior change, I wonder?

Raya

PS: Oh, I meant to ask: Does your new axle have brakes? If not, would they have been an option?
When I replaced the axle on ours, I went with a 22.5 down 2200# axle. Couldn't tell any difference except that now it rides better. (of course, the old axle was frozen solid and didn't flex at all-also was frozen at two different angles) Don't have to worry about cracking the frame again.
Another reason to go to the down angle was to get more ground clearance.
after much discussion with the rep, I got him to admit that it didn't matter which way it went in as there was no toe in set--- Larry
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:06 AM   #12
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To illustrate Roy's point here are drawings of (top) old-style leading-arm and (bottom) new-style trailing-arm axles. 'No Load' is also called 'Start Angle', while 'Full Load' is the normal runnign position.




Sorry to the automotive types amongst you - I'm originally from shipbuilding where we draw the front to the right!

The thing I notice is the 'compliance'. The almost-invisible little red arrows show the direction the hub moves with suspension movement. On the newer-style up-angle axles at full load, the hub and wheels move forwards just as much as they move upwards on a bump. So give the wheel a force that's upwards and backwards - for example, driving over a 4" kerb - and there will be no suspension movement at all. In contrast the old-style leading-arm axle runs just on horizontal where it works at its best.

Clearly the 22.5deg Up start angle axles work fine, but it would be nice to know why the switch to trailing-arm axles was made.
Attached Thumbnails
start-angle-1.JPG   start-angle-2.JPG  

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Old 10-05-2010, 08:27 AM   #13
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Andrew,

Thank you very much for the drawing. I pretty much had it in my head, but it's ever so much more clear this way.

I had got this feeling, by reading over time, that the leading arm axles were inferior, but maybe that's not a given.

I have also heard that most axles are "meant" to be trailing arm and so if you get one to use as a leading arm with brakes you have to switch things around to make the brakes right. I wonder if the conversion to trailing arm coincided with more/most trailers coming with brakes? i.e. as a labor-saving consideration?

This is very interesting

Raya
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:46 PM   #14
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O.K. So I have a 1976 13' Scamp with a leading torsion axle mounted to the frame behind the "dance floor". The axle has very little movement and given this and it's age I plan to replace the axle.

I am looking at a Dexter #9 2200# Ez lube 5x4.5 hubs trailing axle. The hub face to hub face distance is 63" and the outside frame to outside frame distance is 48-1/4". I currently have 13" wheels and tires.

From what I read above the I should order 25.8 degree up angle.

Since the axle will be a trailing axle in order to place the axle in a position where the center of the spindle is in the same position as the old leading axle, I need to mount the axle forward of the old location. Since the old axle was positioned to the rear of the "dance floor", the new axle will need to be positioned forward either below the "dance floor" or within the "dance floor".

I have to assume that someone else has done this and would greatly appreciate the solution. Either below the "dance floor" raising the trailer height or within the "dance floor" maintaining the current height and reducing the size of the "dance floor".

Thanks!

Bob
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