Scamp Rear Receiver Hitch

[Larry Singer]

We bought a new 13’ Scamp and picked it up from the factory last May. I just found out that a 2" receiver is available from the factory for $75. When I reviewed the list of available options, I didn’t realize that’s what that was. My big mistake. Now I have to fabricate one.

DOES ANYONE HAVE PICTURES OR ANY INFORMATION OF WHAT A FACTORY SCAMP REAR "BUMPER" RECEIVER HITCH LOOKS LIKE, OR HOW IT’S FABRICATED ?

I saw on this forum a non-factory rear receiver for a Casita. That is helpful. I also saw on this forum a hitch that had a link installed between the actual bike rack and the belly band of the camper to help stabilize the bike rack. This looks like a good idea.

I’m thinking of bolting a receiver tube on the rear Scamp "bumper" with pieces of angle-iron. Then I would add a bolt-on angle-iron cross member about a foot ahead of the rear bumper to support the front of the receiver tube, also attached with angle iron and bolts. If I could find a good welder, I’ll weld instead of nuts and bolts (my welding skills are not good enough yet).

Any thoughts from anyone ? AGAIN, SCAMP FACTORY HITCH PICTURES WOULD BE GREAT !!!

[KarenW]

If you have a rear bumper, you can get an RV U-bolt-on receiver. I bought a step bumper receiver and bolted it to a secured board (under the back edge of the trailer) on my tear (since it didn't have a bumper). Both would easily be under $50 depending on where you find these to purchase. On-line RV shops or Ebay. I found mine at Harbor Freight.

[Bill K]

Larry,
If you want to drive 30 miles or so I live just south of the state line .
I have a 2009 16'sd with a rear receiver that you are welcome to look at.

Send me a PM if interested.

Bill K

DOES ANYONE HAVE PICTURES OR ANY INFORMATION OF WHAT A FACTORY SCAMP REAR "BUMPER" RECEIVER HITCH LOOKS LIKE, OR HOW IT'S FABRICATED ?

[Larry Singer]

Bill,

Thanks for replying, and for inviting me to look at your Scamp. I might take you up on this if I can't find something closer, or if no pictures come my way.

[Larry Singer]

If you have a rear bumper, you can get an RV U-bolt-on receiver. I bought a step bumper receiver and bolted it to a secured board (under the back edge of the trailer) on my tear (since it didn't have a bumper). Both would easily be under $50 depending on where you find these to purchase. On-line RV shops or Ebay. I found mine at Harbor Freight.

Karen,

Thanks for reply. The scamp rear bumper is a length of angle iron that's not very heavy gauge, and only partially welded at each end. Attaching only to this bumper would induce alot of torque into the bumper, which would probably result in severe back and forth motion of the bike carrier, and then probably failure of the bumper welds and/or some other catastropic failure.

[Bill K]

Unless you could put the trailer up on a lift I am not sure how you could get a usable picture.

Of course you could always dig a six foot deep hole and take a picture that way.LOL

Bill K

Bill,

Thanks for replying, and for inviting me to look at your Scamp. I might take you up on this if I can't find something closer, or if no pictures come my way.

[Chris L.]

Just another word of caution as well if you are putting a reciever on the rear of a 13' Scamp. Any weight of the hitch and underlying metal will take away from your hitch weight, then when you add bikes or whatever that too will take away from your hitch weight which may result in unacceptable sway. I had put one on my Scamp and had only one bike on the bike rack and it swayed like crazy. My rear reciever is now only used to store the hitch end from my tug while at camp. My bike now goes on a custom made rack between the car and the camper and works great. Again, just a word of caution before making too much of an investment. Happy camping!

[Joy A]

Larry,

I have a factory installed receiver on the back of my 13 footer.

The factory used a 12 inch piece of receiver. It extends out from the bumper 3 inches and is welded to the bumper. On the other end the receiver is welded to an "L" piece of iron which is welded to a cross bar that was added specifically for the receiver.

I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow for you.

[Larry Singer]

Larry,

I have a factory installed receiver on the back of my 13 footer.

The factory used a 12 inch piece of receiver. It extends out from the bumper 3 inches and is welded to the bumper. On the other end the receiver is welded to an "L" piece of iron which is welded to a cross bar that was added specifically for the receiver.

I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow for you.

THANKS ! This is exactly the type of info I was looking for. It totally confirms what I was planning to do. Can you measure (as best possible) how thick the "L" (angle iron) is (ie 1/8 ", 3/32 " etc). Pictures would be great. Thanks for the response, and for your effort.

Larry

[Larry Singer]

Thanks for the reply.
Funny you should caution adding weight to the rear resulting in decreased tongue weight. This is one of the effects is was actually wanting to do. Let me explain.

I've read enough info to realize the stated weight of my 13' Scamp, 1000#, is not correct. Using the guidelines that tongue weight should be 10-15 % of the camper, one would expect the tongue weight to be 100-150 #. I asked the Scamp people what my Scamp, with the options I ordered (no front bath, but dual propane tanks), should realistically come in at. They said around 1250#. That would put the tongue weight to be 125-187.5 #. I put the tongue on a bathroom scale (at the correct towing height) and was a little dissapointed to see that it was 215 #. I have yet to weigh the (unloaded) camper. I plan to do this Thursday at a Pilot gas truck stop (cost $7). I'm afraid to find out. Why ? I have a class 1 (1 1/4') hitch rated for 2000# and 200# tongue weight. My tow veichle is rated at 1500#. This is why I chose Scamp over Casita and the others; the supposed light weight that could be "pulled by almost anything". As you can see, I'm on the hairy edge. I hope the actual camper weight is between 1200 and 1300 #, so I could add a little weight to the rear and DECREASE tongue weight and still be under 1500#. Will keep you all posted.

I think many people are being terribly mislead by factory stated camper weights. I've seen 13' Scamps with full baths and all the options advertized as 1000# !!!!!!! I know these are ~1700-1800 # !!!!!!!!!!

Larry

[Joy A]

Larry,

My 13 footer has all the options except the bathroom and it was 1700 lbs. directly off the delivery truck. I now weighs in the neighborhood of 2300 lbs. The bike on the back is now off set by the generator on the tongue.


Back to the receiver. I knew that the factory had added a cross beam to which the receiver is welded and then welded to the bumper. What I didn't realized until I was taking pictures is that the receiver is welded in three spots. The factory added a piece of iron that hangs down on the back side of the bumper, the bumper is "L" shaped so this added piece gives two places to weld at the bumper. Here are the best pictures I could get for you.






Oh yes, and the "L" 3 x 2 is about 1/2 inch thick by my measurement, more likely 3/8's.

[Raya]

Larry,

You have hit on something that drives me nuts Owners (and manufacturers) completely understating camper weights, and/or assuring that it can be "towed with any car." Um... do you know the tow capacity of every car? I don't think so!

I'm really curious about what you will find at the scale, and I'm glad you are going to have your camper weighed. Would be interesting to have it weighed "empty" and then with your typical gear, too - although you could always weigh boxes of your gear separately on a bathroom scale and then add them.

I don't want you to get bad news, but I'm going to be surprised if your Scamp is under 1500# empty of additional gear (beyond the standard equipment provided by Scamp)(pleasantly surprised, in this case).

On the tongue weight: I normally tow a trailer with one propane tank on the tongue, but at one point in time I owned a Trillium 13 that had two propane tanks on the tongue. Big difference in how that felt on my hitch, and I'm pretty sure it was because of higher tongue weight.

Raya

[Larry Singer]

Larry,

My 13 footer has all the options except the bathroom and it was 1700 lbs. directly off the delivery truck. I now weighs in the neighborhood of 2300 lbs. The bike on the back is now off set by the generator on the tongue.


Back to the receiver. I knew that the factory had added a cross beam to which the receiver is welded and then welded to the bumper. What I didn't realized until I was taking pictures is that the receiver is welded in three spots. The factory added a piece of iron that hangs down on the back side of the bumper, the bumper is "L" shaped so this added piece gives two places to weld at the bumper. Here are the best pictures I could get for you.


Attachment 29361



Oh yes, and the "L" 3 x 2 is about 1/2 inch thick by my measurement, more likely 3/8's.

Thank you very much for the reply, info, and the pictures !!!
Your 13' Scamp weighs 1700# empty and dry, and 2300# loaded !!!!!!
Wow !!!!!!
Is it a delux (ie wood interior) ? That would explain some of it.
Why does it weigh so much ?
If my 13' Scamp weighs that much, I'll probably have to buy a higher capacity tow vehicle.

[Joy A]

Nope, it's not a Deluxe.

Remember it's got all the options except the bathroom. So it has A/C, furnace, refrigerator, stove sink, front and back overhead cupboards, screen door, overhead fan, gray water tank etc. 1 propane tank and battery.

It's easy to add weight. Just consider the mountain bike on the back with rack is probably 40 lbs and then the generator on the front is another 40/50 lbs. There's 100 lbs.

Pots/Pans, dishes, food, clothing plus TV, undercounter radio/Cd, microwave etc. etc. weighs more than you think. I don't know how much my solar panel weighs but it seems heavy to me and it's stored in the trailer.

[Larry Singer]

Hi Raya, Joy, and all those following this thread.

We weighed our Scamp (totally empty, just factory).
And we weighed our tow vehicle (fuel tank full, vehicle totally empty, no people).
Weighing was at a Certified Automated Truck "CAT" scale at a Pilot gas station.

Here's the results: Scamp weighs 1460# (1240# camper axle + 220#tongue)
Car GVW (3950#) - car weight (3040#) = 910# available for passengers and cargo.

Now, according to our vehicle owner's manual, our car can pull a trailer weighing up to 1500#, and they recommend the tongue weight be 10-15% of the trailer weight. (trailer weight is defined as trailer axle plus tongue). (15% x 1460# = 219#) As far as the 910# available for passengers and cargo, the vehicle owner's manual says that the tongue weight (220# in my case) counts toward the cargo. ie, the 910 is reduced by the 220# to 690#.

Sounds simple enough, except here's what's confusing: The tongue weight (220#) is being counted twice (Once as part of the trailer weight that can be pulled, and again as part of the cargo that can be carried). I can't see why this should be. My interpretation is that the 220# should be counted as EITHER cargo or trailer weight.

Why is this important, and isn't this splitting hairs ? When you're on the edge of everything (What the tow vehicle can pull, what the tow vehicle can carry in cargo, and what the hitch tongue load limit is (Category 1 is 200#), then it comes more into play. If I'm within specs, even near the limit, things should be OK (but great caution should be used). If I'm over spec, then I need to assess whether a larger tow vecle is needed.

My assessment is the camper should count as 1240# (leaving 260# towards the 1500# limit), and the tongue weight should count towards the cargo, leaving 609# for passengers and cargo.

Now, back to the bike rack. If the bike rack and 2 bikes weight 125-150#, then the camper will be around 1390#, leaving room for about 110# more weight I could add to the camper. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, the bikes and rack will reduce the tongue weight, which is already a little over the 200# spec (of course I'll measure the tongue weight and keep it over 10% of the trailer weight).

Whew !!! I hope this makes some sense. Please give me your feedback.

[Raya]

First of all, thanks for reporting back on real world weights

Okay, so your Scamp weighs 1460# empty and your car is rated to tow 1500#. Wouldn't that pretty much nix it right there? I mean, it's pretty hard to go camping with less than 41# of gear. And yeah, 1501# would probably not kill the car, but it seems like it would be nearly impossible to keep it under 1700# or more.

Adding a hitch, bike rack, and bikes would then bring you up to around 1875# (if you are saying bike and bike rack would weigh 150#, then say 25# for the receiver hitch and metalwork on the camper). So that is nearly 25% over the towing limit for your car, and that's packing very light (I bet I have more than 200# of gear in mine, and I'm a light packer).

This seems to make the tongue weight question not really matter, although I can see why you are curious, and of course one wants these things to make sense regardless! Here is my thought:

1) You know you have to count the tongue weight as part of the trailer weight you are towing, because even though that weight is not on the axle of the camper, you are still pulling it forward (and trying to stop it) with your car. So that makes sense.

2) The second time you are counting the tongue weight seems to have to do with how much weight the vehicle's suspension can support. In other words, it's weighing on the rear springs, shocks, etc.

So maybe it's not really that you are counting it twice, but more that it affects two different parts of the tow vehicle (engine/drive train/transmission/brakes in propulsion and stopping vs. rear suspension/tires in weight sitting on them) in different ways, and you have to account for both of those.

It's really a shame you were given a weight of 1250# when the camper weighs nearly 20% more than that --- empty (1460#). You would have been cutting it awfully close with the 1250#, but the 1460# makes it impossible to tow within your vehicle's rating in the real world (i.e. no-one tows a perfectly empty trailer down the road to go camping).

Again, thank you so much for reporting back, and I'm sorry that the real weight puts a wrench in the works.

Raya

[Ben Kadas]

I had a receiver welded to my Scamp 13 before we left on a three week, 7500 mile trip. The receiver was from Scamp, approx 12" long. A welder added a piece of square steel tubing to serve as a cross piece support between the frame rails, then the receiver was welded to the bumper and to the cross piece.

I had three unicycles and a rack mounted in that receiver for the entire trip and had zero problems. No additional sway issues, welds and receiver held up fine. I do believe that the weight at the rear of the trailer helped counter hitch weight which was likely a little much for our Highlander loaded as it was; this was part of my plan.

I do not think a bolt on unit would be a good idea, there is just too much side to side movment and if the receiver slipped, it would tear up your camper something fierce.

Cost for the receiver was ~$50, welding and materials another $200.

Having your bikes between the vehicle and trailer is a pain in terms of clearance and access, plus it adds to hitch weight.

[Larry Singer]

I had a receiver welded to my Scamp 13 before we left on a three week, 7500 mile trip. The receiver was from Scamp, approx 12" long. A welder added a piece of square steel tubing to serve as a cross piece support between the frame rails, then the receiver was welded to the bumper and to the cross piece.

I had three unicycles and a rack mounted in that receiver for the entire trip and had zero problems. No additional sway issues, welds and receiver held up fine. I do believe that the weight at the rear of the trailer helped counter hitch weight which was likely a little much for our Highlander loaded as it was; this was part of my plan.

I do not think a bolt on unit would be a good idea, there is just too much side to side movment and if the receiver slipped, it would tear up your camper something fierce.

Cost for the receiver was ~$50, welding and materials another $200.

Having your bikes between the vehicle and trailer is a pain in terms of clearance and access, plus it adds to hitch weight.

Thanks VERY MUCH for reply. I guess you know that a receiver from Scamp costs only $75. And a 2" to 1 1/4" reciever tube that's 11" long is available from Harbor Frieght for $9.95.

It's very easy to put a bathroom scale under a 2x4 cut to put the ball part of the tongue at the right height (same height as when attached to your tow vvehicle). ie measure height of bottom of tongue at ball when attached to TV. Then put a 2x4 on top of scale and measure from ground to the measured height. Cut the 2x4 at that mark. ie this is all common sense. unhitch camper, raise tongue with crank, slip scale and 2x4 under tongue, lower crank until scale is fully engaged, but don't raise crank very much, as the whole camper may shift, and if the crank isn't too high, the camper will simply come to rest on the crank support.

I did this (camper totally empty of everything) and had my wife observe the scale (which was 220#), while I carefully stood/balanced on the rear bumper with my entire weight (not that easy to do). This would approximate 2 bikes (38#each) the bike rack (40#), and any hitch material needed for a receiver (34#). this totals 150#, which is what I weigh (that's where the 34# came from (150-38-38-40=34). When I did this, the tongue dropped from 220# to 130#. I realize this is all very approximate, and the bikes would hang further back and reduce the tongue weight even more, but this is all very ballpark. I just wanted to see the approximate result. If I do this, then we can build the tongue weight back up to something reasonable (say #150-#180) with camping gear up front.

Another note: As previously mentioned, it would be easy to put a horizontal link/brace between the vertical part of the bike rack and the camper to help stabilize all that weight hanging on the bike rack. This brace could go from the bike rack to the camper belly band, or to the spare tire attachment studs.

In fact, I saw a bike rack on an SUV mounted soley to the spare tire mounting studs. It was a "Thule". I wonder how strong the Scamp (or others) spare tire mounting is ? Probably not strong enough.

Larry

[Pam Garlow]

I saw something that I am seriously considering. Add a reciever to the front of the tow vehicle and mount the bike rack there. See link for photos.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseacti...id/21596758.cfm