Scamp tire wear - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-05-2013, 08:35 PM   #29
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Yep. Them are 7-inch brakes on my Scamp. Eddie, Donna, I think you just cleared up the muddy waters in my mind. Looks like my best move is a new axle.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:49 PM   #30
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What information does the Al-Ko tag provide on the axle? Can you upload a close up of that? The Al-Ko is a little different from other axles I've see and can't come close to guessing what the original angle may have been from your picture.

What is the range of motion on your axle? Jack up your trailer so one wheel is off the ground. Pick a spot on the torsion arm and measure it to a marked spot on the wheel well on one side. Do the same with the trailer on the ground bearing its own weight. Add 4-500 Lbs weight to that side and measure again. Repeat for the other side. Compare your numbers and post them.
That will give you a range of motion of the "torsion" part of the axle and not tire flex.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:44 PM   #31
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3500 lb. Flexride torsion axle with electric drum brakes: $519 + $73 shipping.
2 ea ST175/80D13 tires with 5-lug wheels: $126 + $40 shipping.
Backyard labor with beer and sandwiches: free
Medical attention: bandaids, linement, more beer

Piece of brain-- I mean mind-- priceless.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Leski View Post
  • Brian with wheel removed everything with the axle is looking normal to me. But of course I have no idea what is normal here.
Okay, I was foolishly assuming a Dexter Torflex; if it were a Torflex, I would gladly work through the visual assessment. Unfortunately for this purpose, it's not a Torflex. It is probably an Al-Ko; there's nothing wrong with that, but the round cap covers the part which would allow determination of the start angle on a Torflex.

Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin Maring View Post
I got slamed for saying this: The arm on our camper is angled down and yours are level...
I certainly didn't intend to "slam" anyone, but since start angles vary from year to year or just at the whim of the builders, a comparison of arm angles without knowing that they started the same just isn't useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
The Al-Ko is a little different from other axles I've see and can't come close to guessing what the original angle may have been from your picture.
Neither can I. Again, sorry for the confusion. If anyone does have a way to determine the start angle of an Al-Ko (is the bar end visible if that round cap is removed?) please share it.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:17 AM   #33
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My wheel well clearance didn't change at all when I jacked up my scamp 19', it was pretty obvious the old 2200 pound axle was shot.

With the new 3500 pound axle, you can see it squat a bit when the jack goes down.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:05 PM   #34
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[QUOTE=Jared J;393251]My wheel well clearance didn't change at all when I jacked up my scamp 19', it was pretty obvious the old 2200 pound axle was shot.

Jared, can you elaborate? I really need to know what "pretty obvious" means. With my '86 2200 lb axle nothing seems amiss at all to me. Looking at my pictures, can you detect anything? I see no twisting, no bleeding, no popped open seams, no squeezed out rubber grommets or washers, no loose nuts - in fact - I see nothing looking out of allignment or even at all adjustable. I'll take more pictures if necessary.

I just got back from the city where I had 2 new tires mounted on my old rims, which were then also balanced. The guy said he thought my kind of wear would likely be caused by unbalanced rims, and/or underinflation, or both. This same opinion was also offered by the trailer axle shop owner I spoke with today. By the way, axle-guy also volunteered his low opinion of torsion axles compared to ones employing springs. Said they don't last as long.


Well, the fun just never ends.
  • I also went to two trailer parts suppliers in town, looking for replacement brake pads, 7-inch. Nobody has them!
  • I measured the outside width of my frame at 47˝ inches, and Scamp claims their 3500 lb. replacement axle with 10" brakes is 49 3/4 inches for a 19-footer.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:14 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=Myron Leski;393440]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J View Post
... I see no twisting, no bleeding, no popped open seams, no squeezed out rubber grommets or washers, no loose nuts - in fact - I see nothing looking out of allignment or even at all adjustable. I'll take more pictures if necessary....

...By the way, axle-guy also volunteered his low opinion of torsion axles compared to ones employing springs. Said they don't last as long....
Torsion axle they insert rubber bar into hollow axle by freezing to the point it contracts and becomes hard, then slide it in with arm and hub spindle attached. Once rubber expands it's locked in place. Nothing to leak, or grommets, or washers or adjustments.

The only "adjustment" is done when it is manufactured, and that is what angle the arm with the hub spindle is connected to the rubber in the axle at, or down angle.

0 degree down angle would be spindle straight back and level with axle, 10 degree would be spindle just slightly below axle, on through 22.5 and 45 degree down angle. Down angle is the angle of the line between the axle center and the hub spindle center as measured against level with axle center.

Suspension action normally provided by springs and shocks in "regular" axle is provided by the fact that pushing up the hub causes the rubber in the axle to be twisted, the further it gets twisted the more tension rubber is under so the more it resists tire being pushed up. Keeping the tire pressed firmly on the road when going over bumps while cushioning the trailer from the bumps.

Your spindle looks like it is very close to 0 degree down angle in those pictures, if it was originally 10 degree down angle, being 0 now would mean the rubber has lost a lot of elasticity. Trailer weight is enough to push tire up, trailer rides low, and going over bumps the tire bounces off the road because the rubber can no longer apply the force to hold it down.

But no one knows what original down angle was on your trailer, could have been only 5 degree or even 0 degree when manufactured. That stuff changed a lot over the years.

As to spring axle lasting longer... well yes steel leaf spring would BUT if you ever watched a lightly loaded utility trailer bouncing down the road like a rubber ball you know why high end campers such as Airstream used torsion axles. Empty or fully loaded torsion axle provides smooth suspension.

That and torsion axle provides the ride and suspension of springs plus shocks without putting the trailer an extra foot or more off the ground. Or having to find some weird sized shock absorber when they wear out.

I should note since if I don't someone else will there is an after market axle that does allow adjusting down angle, that one would have adjustments.

Reason axle is suspect for tire wear is if rubber is shot it allows tire to bounce off of the road when tire slams back into road there will be scuff wear and/or cupping. But someone noted your cupping is mostly at the edges, underinflated tire arches in the middle so center is not making contact with the road.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:15 PM   #36
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The brackets on a #10 (3500#) Dexter is 2.5" wide and the #9 axles are 2" wide. When you order an axle your bracket spacing is is based on outside spacing of the brackets. Scamp frame rails are only 1.5" wide. So your #10 axle over hangs the frame by 1" on each side. You want to your axle brackets to line up (almost) on the inside of the of the frame rails. So measure your inside frame spacing the add 5" and you get the apprpoximate bracket spacing. You can't weld the axel bracket to the inside edge of the frame rail because the floor support angle is welded to the edge of the frame. Scamp spreads the axle brackets so the axle bracket is welded to the bottom of the frame not exactly to the edge of the frame rail. That is why the axle brackets are slightly wider than the inside of the frame.
Now you get to the axle alert issue with the 1" gap from the outer edge of the frame rail to the outer edge of axle bracket support. Some weld 1" square stock to the frame rail outer side to the edge of the outer axel support. On the last axel I replaced Scamp used 1" angle iron to provide the support which worked OK. This support should be welded to the frame prior to the axle install so the bottom of the support can be welded to the lower outer edge of the frame rail.
One more note: If you add the bolt on brackets to your axle you also have to add for their thickness.
I'm sure this adds a little more confusion, but that's why the numbers don't seem to add up. Just measure the inside spacing of your current axle and add 5" and you should have your replacement axle bracket spacing.
Eddie
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #37
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Roy, Roger, I very much appreciate your detailed and learnéd description of how these axles (should) work. So um...therefore, the only physical proof the axle is shot is rubber marks inside the wheel well and - "eaten" tires?

I will install my new tires and tow the trailer to nearest big, flat, paved parking area, where I will perform bounce tests to see what happens in the well.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Leski View Post
Roy, Roger, I very much appreciate your detailed and learnéd description of how these axles (should) work. So um...therefore, the only physical proof the axle is shot is rubber marks inside the wheel well and - "eaten" tires?

I will install my new tires and tow the trailer to nearest big, flat, paved parking area, where I will perform bounce tests to see what happens in the well.

If I was you I would do the test first. If you get a new axle (& it sure sounds and looks like you need one) you will need new wheels and with those come different tire sizes. Would be a waste of money to buy new tires to fit old wheels you will not be able to use on the new axle.

As far as no physical proof the axle is shoot other than the tire marks on the wheel well and the tire wear which are two big ones, more than a few people have mentioned your profile photo shows a trailer riding pretty low which in itself could also be taken as physical proof of a shot axle.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Myron Leski View Post
I honestly don't know where I got that owners manual-- cannot find an original copy and do not have a cover sheet, which tells me I must have downloaded from Scamp and printed seleced pages. I noticed other discrepancies, like their listed wheel bearing part number was different from what fit in the hub when I changed the bearings.
Myron I would suggest you either downloaded the manual from Scamp or from the Document center on this site. Unfortunately the information contained in it applies to somewhat newer Scamps than yours that have different axles, hubs and bearings.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:13 AM   #40
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What I meant was, if you jack up the axle and the tire doesn't move in comparison to your wheel well, the axle is shot.

Here's how mine started with 175-80/13 tires.



The axle was angled up, and didn't move when jacked up.



New axle, 3" frame lift, 225/75/15 tires.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:31 AM   #41
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Think leaf spring - as weight is applied the spring flattens a bit. A worn out leaf is already flat spring so it would not flatten any more.

A couple of people have already mentioned this but it's worth repeating. If you replace the axle purchase the bolt on brackets with it. The bracket is welded to the frame, the axle then bolts onto the bracket. I think it's easier to position a small bracket true and weld it than it is to position a whole axle true and weld that. Plus the next axle replacement is a bolt on job, not a welding job.

Yeah I know it's not for another 10 to 15 years but hey you ever notice how many of these are 30 years old and still being used? Someone will appreciate it.

I would also have axle done professionally unless your pretty sure of your skills, they measure and order part, it's probably going to be right and if it's not you don't have to eat the axle cost. People that do this for a living or have years of experience tend to do it well. So they are worth paying for.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:59 AM   #42
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I got mine from scamp, price was reasonable, they had the right brackets to weld to the frame, axle fit right the first time, and they sent all the frame pieces I needed to raise the camper higher, all cut to perfect length.

I just had to burn everything in, and bolt the axle on.

More than a few people on here have had the first axle a shop ordered be wrong. Getting it from scamp saved me all the bs. Just my $.02.
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