Shank length on draw bar --longer or shorter?

[EllPea in CA]

I need to get a draw bar to connect Volvo to Lil'Bigfoot.

These apparently have a choice of shank *lengths.*

DH is on top of the height we need from ground to top of ball, but we haven't discussed the shank.

Is there an ideal shank length (to allow adequate turning clearance from bumper to trailer)?

If it helps, the V70 is more rounded on the corners than the previous, more boxy models.

[floyd]

Generally speaking, the closer the ball is to the rear axle, the better.
That is of course assuming turning radius is not affected.

[Harvey]

Can't really speak for your Volvo but the receiver on my Toyota Tacoma comes pretty well 'even' with the rear of the bumper. The half inch hole for the hitch pin is approx 2 1/4" in front of the rear of rcvr. I have a half dozen or so 'stubs/stingers/drawbars' whatever you choose to call 'em. Most are what I'd consider standard length, i.e. from the 'drop' to the center of the hole for the hitch pin is 5 1/4" give or take a fraction. I also have some home made stubs with more/less drop & shorter/longer length to the hole, some as short as 3" or so. I'm pretty sure the standard (at least most I've seen) is probably about 5 1/4" from drop/rise to center of hitch pin hole. With my existing setup I've towed a 16' tandem axle equipment trailer, my 10' teardrop trailer, a 13' Scamp, & a 17' Casita, along with a bass boat & several utility trailers. I've made some pretty 'sharp' turns while backing & havent 'crunched' either the trailers or the truck yet...

Here's pic of a stub on my truck, with 3" drop & 5 1/4" from drop to hole - That puts the ball center about 6" away from the bumper/hitch. Wouldn't want it much farther (or closer)

[PC Steve]

Two things point to a shorter shank. The longer shank providers more leverage for the trailer to act on the vehicle. A smaller tow vehicle would benefit from a shorter shank. Some folks drill a new hole closer to the ball to shorten it further. Your smaller vehicle would make maneuverability less of an issue.

One concern is the ability to raise a rear hatch, if you have one.

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Harvey

Here's pic of a stub on my truck, with 3" drop & 5 1/4" from drop to hole - That puts the ball center about 6" away from the bumper/hitch. Wouldn't want it much farther (or closer)

Havey, thanks for your info and the photo. Have you ever reversed one like this, in order to change the height? Or should it only go one way? (I'm looking at the angle of the weld; is it stronger in one direction than the other?)

[EllPea in CA]

Thanks Floyd and Steve. I do have a rear hatch (it's a station wagon), but it's well out of the way.

This is getting exciting...!

[Harvey]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

Havey, thanks for your info and the photo. Have you ever reversed one like this, in order to change the height? Or should it only go one way? (I'm looking at the angle of the weld; is it stronger in one direction than the other?)

From all the info I've been able to obtain, you can use 'em either way, as a drop or rise. I have a couple of homemade that I welded up myself & I'd not be afraid to use 'em as a 'riser'. The ball mount itself is made of 5/8" solid steel, & if the welder is competent the 'joint' is as strong or stronger than the base steel.

[Donna D.]

I've towed my Scamp with two different Ford F-150s. On my 2000, the stinger had a 2-1/2" drop. Towing with the 2014, which is a 4x4, I had to flip the same stinger over to get a 1/2" rise.

I think those were the measurements. Either way... it worked.

[redbarron55]

In my opinion the drop or rise should be calculated for the trailer level and the unladen height of the station wagon level.
Then I believe you wold be well served to add Airlift bag to raise the rear laden to the unladen height. This is especially important with cars with Independent rear suspension to correct the geometry to keep proper handling.
I have done a good bit of research on my VW station wagon and it makes a great TV.
Studied in the late '70s indicate that adding Airlifts give approximately half of the benefit of a weight distributing hitch and keeps the headlights aimed properly.
According to Airlift people you should start with the airlift pressure higher than what you would need and reduce it to the point that the car is level.
When not towing or the additional lift is not required keep at least 5 PSI in the bags.

[EllPea in CA]

Thank you, Harvey, Donna, & JP!

I will look into airbags. What we have done so far regarding keeping the car and trailer level, is place weight on the rear of the car equal to the tongue weight of the trailer. The drop down is not very significant. We used this measurement to choose the receiver (which we will have to turn over, but this seems to be fine). We wanted the top of the ball (with tongue weight added to the car) to be equal with the hitch of the trailer when level.

We can test the level of the car by looking at headlights also. If necessary, Ron can temporarily adjust them -- he's good at that stuff.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

Thank you, Harvey, Donna, & JP!

I will look into airbags. What we have done so far regarding keeping the car and trailer level, is place weight on the rear of the car equal to the tongue weight of the trailer. The drop down is not very significant. We used this measurement to choose the receiver (which we will have to turn over, but this seems to be fine). We wanted the top of the ball (with tongue weight added to the car) to be equal with the hitch of the trailer when level.

We can test the level of the car by looking at headlights also. If necessary, Ron can temporarily adjust them -- he's good at that stuff.

LP, doing online research and asking questions is fine but. Any tow vehicle and trailer are going to be it's own as far as how they couple up for level towing. The only way you're really going to know if your tongue/hitch is a good level to go is to connect it and look from a side distance. Looking at the headlights means nothing for the tow angle you are needing or looking for. Trailer= level or slightly down on the ball is all you need. It's that easy, really . All stingers are reversible for adjustment and they do sell balls with an extra inch in the neck to help get it closer. I borrowed a couple different length drop stingers from friends to find out which one worked out the closest before buying one. BTW, I did have to change them to a rise mount for testing. Getting the right tongue height is the easiest thing you'll have to do. Save the fretting for picking out the colors/fabrics you want to decorate with .

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

LP, doing online research and asking questions is fine but. ... Save the fretting for picking out the colors/fabrics you want to decorate with .

LOL. You're so funny. As if I've actually NOT been decorating? Silly person!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

Is there an ideal shank length (to allow adequate turning clearance from bumper to trailer)?

Floyd, Steve, and others have the good info.

Get the ball as close to the back bumper as possible.

I had ours redrilled to do this. A few inches make a difference. The change in effect, makes the TV react as if the vehicle's wheelbase is longer, (wheel base to overhang ratio). There is also less stress on the hitch receiver that is attached to the vehicle.

[Carol H]

Every vehicle is different. If someone needed airbags in a particular station wagon or small SUV I would not assume they all need them. I pulled with a small station wagon a 16' and did not need airbags in the rear.

I would fill up the propane tank and load up your stuff into the trailer and hook it up before deciding what if anything is needed in that regard. If your not planning on loading up the rear of the vehicle or carrying passengers in the back seat you may find it is just fine as is.

As far as getting the right height goes the only sure way of doing that is to again load up the trailer and attach it to the car. Once you have towed it you may need to fine tune it and find yourself the proud owner of more than one draw bar. ;-) For example - my previous tow vehicle was most stable in all towing/weather conditions when the trailer was completely level. Current tug and trailer combo gives the most stable tow particularly in side wind conditions if the tongue is slightly down on the trailer.

Re the welding on the draw bar - the draw bar is built to a weight capacity that is stated on it regardless as to whether it is in drop or rise position.

[Wayne Collins]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

I need to get a draw bar to connect Volvo to Lil'Bigfoot.

These apparently have a choice of shank *lengths.*

DH is on top of the height we need from ground to top of ball, but we haven't discussed the shank.

Is there an ideal shank length (to allow adequate turning clearance from bumper to trailer)?

If it helps, the V70 is more rounded on the corners than the previous, more boxy models.

Floyd said it best. Keep the ball as close as you can to your rear bumper.
This has two advantages: It reduces the leverage the trailer hitch weight has to cause your car to sag on its springs; and it reduces the tendency for trailer sway. Also, pay attention as to how snug the stinger is in the receiver. If loose, it will aggravate the tendency for trailer sway.
To get the ball in close, I had to drill another hole in the shank. To take out the play (looseness) I added shims at the side and bottom, and drilled and tapped a hole in the bottom of the receiver, forward, for a 3/8 fine thread set screw .... which must be loosened to get the stinger out, and tightened after you put it in.

[EllPea in CA]

I think what we sound up with will do nicely. DH was pretty careful (with his height measurements and all), just to make sure we were in the ballpark. He got the receiver that put us closest, but we will have to move it out and hitch up to make sure we're level.

Carol, that's good to know about the wind and the slight dip in front, how the behavior of the trailer changes with different TV's, and also about the reversal of the draw bar. I guess there could be controversy about that as well as everything else. Due to the angle of the weld, it does look stronger in one direction than the other, but I do believe it's safe either way (especially since we wound up with such a honking big draw bar rated for much more than 3500 lbs, and our trailer weighs less than 2000)!

LOL, DH just came in and said the nose down concept is like the "Nascar Rake." I guess he would know. He also says that the rounded trailer is less affected by the "rake" than is a square trailer (and wind, of course). In other words, he very much likes the concept of the shape of our eggs, and is getting more enchanted every day (I can tell)!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

In other words, he very much likes the concept of the shape of our eggs, and is getting more enchanted every day (I can tell)!

Aerodynamics and towing........... perfecto!.

[redbarron55]

If you check the unloaded height of the rear and compare to the laden height this will usually cause the camber to increase and perhaps the toe out as well.
This is not an issue with a solid rear axle, but with the IRS it could be.
The suspension is designed to work within a range of ride height and if it is lower tire wear could be accelerated and also not handle as well.
The Airbags simply put the suspension in the proper area.
Again research indicates that the use of airbags to level the TV provides 1/2 of the benefit of having a weight distribution hitch. Mostly by putting the rear end at the proper level. This provides more advantageous roll coupling front and rear and with the trailer. The leveling of the TV with the WD is a large part of the reason for it's use.
The other is the transfer of weight off the rear to the front wheels and the trailer wheels. A lot of stress accompanies this weight shift as well. This is of course why many manufacturers discourage the use of WD hitches.
If you want 1/2 of the benefit of the WD hitch, and a level car so that the headlights are the same towing or not, keep the rear tires from wearing, and improve the handling for about $100.00 then try it.
If it doesn't match your idea of the proper universe then (of course) don't add them. They do not add load capacity to the car, just add enough spring rate to bring the car back to level with the additional load.
The reason I brought it up is if you measure the ball height of the trailer hitch and set the ball on the car at that level then you merely add air to keep it there when loaded.
Lots of benefit and little cost.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

I think what we sound up with will do nicely. DH was pretty careful (with his height measurements and all), just to make sure we were in the ballpark. He got the receiver that put us closest, but we will have to move it out and hitch up to make sure we're level.


LOL, DH just came in and said the nose down concept is like the "Nascar Rake." I guess he would know. He also says that the rounded trailer is less affected by the "rake" than is a square trailer (and wind, of course). In other words, he very much likes the concept of the shape of our eggs, and is getting more enchanted every day (I can tell)!

LOL well you can tell the DH that the trailer pulled by both vehicles was a round Scamp. BTW putting the tongue to far down can also result in undesirable consequences.

The bottom line is there is a number of things that impact how stable a tow is behind any particular vehicle - as some have suggested the distance between the hitch and the axle is one of them, another is the actual center of gravity of the trailer itself - that will be different with each trailer depending on its layout and placement of water tanks etc. and how one loads it up. The trailers tongue weight - due to interior design and storage space locations will always be lighter on some trailers when fully loaded than another may be & little can be done in regards to how it is loaded to change that.

I was able to achieve a very solid tow with a level trailer when towing with a vehicle that the axle was closer to the hitch and the vehicle itself was a bit heavier on the back end vs pulling the same trailer with a vehicle that has a greater distance between the axle & the hitch and the vehicle itself is a bit lighter in the back end. The later vehicle needs a bit more weight on the tongue of the trailer for a solid tow in windy conditions & traveling at highway speeds and the only way to achieve that due to the lack of storage areas ahead of the axle in the trailer is to put the tongue down slightly that is hardly noticeable to the eye when hooked up.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Carol H

...
As far as getting the right height goes the only sure way of doing that is to again load up the trailer and attach it to the car. Once you have towed it you may need to fine tune it and find yourself the proud owner of more than one draw bar. ;-) ....

How true.. I have three draw bars. If I had it to do over again, I would buy one adjustable. But now I might need sway control, so I might be buying more stuff anyway. Such is the life of a trailer owner.