So you think you don't need trailer brakes?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by John Fazio

Hey Floyd,
Where can you be fined for having brakes on your camper if they are not required. I would like to read the law.

Thanks.

-John

I said can't

[John Fazio]

Originally Posted by floyd

I said can't

No wonder I was dumbfounded. I heard of some crazy laws but if that one existed it would be near the top of the list.

-John

[floyd]

Originally Posted by John Fazio

No wonder I was dumbfounded. I heard of some crazy laws but if that one existed it would be near the top of the list.

-John

I was once one of a small group on a town board charged with updating the ordinance book, so I have seen much stranger things.
It was once against the law to bathe before dark...

[Bruce Thomas]

considering how much time most peoples eggs spend actually hooked to their tow vehicle I doubt the reason your brake bill was steep or the repair was even needed could be linked to the egg easily.
If they were burning brakes off vehicles that much , all you'ld smell when towing would be burning brakes...and maybe see the smoke

[Donna D.]

I've been reading all the comments since my original post. Yeah, I know I could have replaced the brake cheaper (parts were over $360) if I wanted to do the work myself.. I didn't. It was below freezing at my house and I no longer have a garage to work in. The post was made for those that are looking to replace an axle (get brakes!) or those newbies with marginal tow vehicles.

Does anyone really think stopping 1,300-1,800 extra pounds behind their tug won't wear the tug brakes out faster? I mean, really?? It's a question of physics... and wallet.

[Bruce Thomas]

I doubt you drive it hard enough Donna to cause overly excessive wear, or that its on there enough.

[Andrew GPSMapNut]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

>>>>

Does anyone really think stopping 1,300-1,800 extra pounds behind their tug won't wear the tug brakes out faster? I mean, really?? It's a question of physics... and wallet.

No question. The brakes will wear out faster. Now, for the ones with an adequate TV, the question that I pose is:
Do you rather replace the TV brakes more often on TV or somewhat less often on TV and on the trailer?
My personal point of view is based on the fact that I tow only few times a year. Well, too few. I suspect that most visitors here spend more time dreaming about towing than actually towing but that is another matter.
In any case, unused brakes will rust and will require more maintenance than just replacing the worn pads. I rather have no bakes on the trailer than think that I have them and have them malfunction just because one side rusted more than the other... Well, being there, done that. No thanks. The excitement of the tail wagging the dog is not for me. Anyway; I'm digressing. My real point is that to stop any mass you will have to spend money. Spending that money on the TV brakes may be more sensible than spending money on TV and trailer brakes because the grand total may be about the same. Having said that; IF the TV and it's brakes are not adequate than trailer brakes are a must.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I've been reading all the comments since my original post. Yeah, I know I could have replaced the brake cheaper (parts were over $360) if I wanted to do the work myself.. I didn't. It was below freezing at my house and I no longer have a garage to work in. The post was made for those that are looking to replace an axle (get brakes!) or those newbies with marginal tow vehicles.

Does anyone really think stopping 1,300-1,800 extra pounds behind their tug won't wear the tug brakes out faster? I mean, really?? It's a question of physics... and wallet.

Really...
When I'm not towing I drive faster, and brake harder than when I'm towing, It may well be that my trailer saves brakes on my TV.That is also why I get nearly the same mileage with or without the trailer. We also use manual transmissions exclusively.
Too many variables for definitive conclusions, but it may well be generally true what you say... just not always.

[Roger Kimble]

State Towing Laws for RVs

This link tells what weight breaks are needed in every state.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Roger Kimble

State Towing Laws for RVs

This link tells what weight breaks are needed in every state.

So, according to the link...
It looks like any 13 Scamp would be legal without brakes in 44 states,and many in 49, maybe just one in all 50.
Just about any Scamp16 would be legal in 42 states without brakes
Both would be legal in Canada without brakes, eventhough it has been many years (if ever) that a Scamp 16 was offered without brakes.
Brakes are required above 1500#gross weight in CA,GA,ID,NV,TN,...Above 1000# NC, 2000# MS,OH, the rest are 3000# or more.
NY says 3000# gross weight or 1000# empty, I counted an RV as GW laden.
Now, considering the accuracy of charts in general, I want to remind those who find issues, that I prefaced my post with the words...
"So, according to the link..."

[Joy A]

Yeah Floyd, my 13 Scamp wasn't legal here in CA when it was delivered to my house from the factory, some 1700 lbs empty. You know it's now well in excess of the 1500 lbs. limit.

It took me some 6 years to add brakes. I decided to add them before my trip to Alaska not knowing that the majority of the roadways up there are at less elevation than where I live. Not nearly the ups and downs and windy roads I normally incur. Easy driving compared to my travels in No. Cal.

Donna, I feel your pain. I've got some $850 to $900 to shell out for tires for the Jeep. I can't complain though as I put these tires on June 2005 and have some 80,000 miles on them. The best I've gotten on any vehicle I've owned.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

So, according to the link...
It looks like any 13 Scamp would be legal without brakes in 44 states,and many in 49, maybe just one in all 50.
Just about any Scamp16 would be legal in 42 states without brakes
Both would be legal in Canada without brakes, eventhough it has been many years (if ever) that a Scamp 16 was offered without brakes.
Brakes are required above 1500#gross weight in CA,GA,ID,NV,TN,...Above 1000# NC, 2000# MS,OH, the rest are 3000# or more.
NY says 3000# gross weight or 1000# empty, I counted an RV as GW laden.
Now, considering the accuracy of charts in general, I want to remind those who find issues, that I prefaced my post with the words...
"So, according to the link..."

I contend that you most likely would require brakes on your trailer/tow vehicle in KA and OR.

One other thing that's not pointed out in that chart, breakaway switches. A breakaway system is required on all trailers that brakes are required. That's a US federal law.
Beware, many of these charts aren't current and inaccuracies are not uncommon.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I contend that you most likely would require brakes on your trailer/tow vehicle in KA and OR.

One other thing that's not pointed out in that chart, breakaway switches. A breakaway system is required on all trailers that brakes are required. That's a US federal law.
Beware, many of these charts aren't current and inaccuracies are not uncommon.

Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.

I wish I would have saved the URL. I don't think I'll spend a lot of time trying to find it. I installed a breakaway switch so I'm covered.

[Donna D.]

Federal Law 49CFR393.43 Not hard to Google the info. Here's someone that put the info out on their Blob: OH No......

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.

Here it is......
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations 393.43 paragraph (d)

d) Breakaway braking requirements for trailers. Every trailer required to be equipped with brakes shall have brakes which apply automatically and immediately upon breakaway from the towing vehicle. With the exception of trailers having three or more axles, all brakes with which the trailer is required to be equipped must be applied upon breakaway from the towing vehicle. The brakes must remain in the applied position for at least 15 minutes.

NOTE: There is no reference to heavy trucking.

Here's a link to brochure put out by the Missouri Highway Patrol. Link

[Greg H]

When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.

[Daniel A.]

Donna see what you started. LOL

[Bruce Thomas]

Originally Posted by Greg H

When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.

usually you'll see those long marks just before an exit...lotta "tractor" owners pulling freight decide its easier to apply the trailer brake(they have a lever) than put wear and tear on their own stuff.....so they drag the trailer, lotta times causing those long stripes you see. Thats alot more common than anything breaking and applying the brakes

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Greg H

When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.

That's also why you see a truck that's set for a bit needing to idle before moving, the pressure has to build up to the release the brakes.