So you think you don't need trailer brakes? - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-17-2011, 09:39 PM   #29
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State Towing Laws for RVs

This link tells what weight breaks are needed in every state.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Kimble View Post
State Towing Laws for RVs

This link tells what weight breaks are needed in every state.
So, according to the link...
It looks like any 13 Scamp would be legal without brakes in 44 states,and many in 49, maybe just one in all 50.
Just about any Scamp16 would be legal in 42 states without brakes
Both would be legal in Canada without brakes, eventhough it has been many years (if ever) that a Scamp 16 was offered without brakes.
Brakes are required above 1500#gross weight in CA,GA,ID,NV,TN,...Above 1000# NC, 2000# MS,OH, the rest are 3000# or more.
NY says 3000# gross weight or 1000# empty, I counted an RV as GW laden.
Now, considering the accuracy of charts in general, I want to remind those who find issues, that I prefaced my post with the words...
"So, according to the link..."
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:39 AM   #31
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Yeah Floyd, my 13 Scamp wasn't legal here in CA when it was delivered to my house from the factory, some 1700 lbs empty. You know it's now well in excess of the 1500 lbs. limit.

It took me some 6 years to add brakes. I decided to add them before my trip to Alaska not knowing that the majority of the roadways up there are at less elevation than where I live. Not nearly the ups and downs and windy roads I normally incur. Easy driving compared to my travels in No. Cal.

Donna, I feel your pain. I've got some $850 to $900 to shell out for tires for the Jeep. I can't complain though as I put these tires on June 2005 and have some 80,000 miles on them. The best I've gotten on any vehicle I've owned.
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
So, according to the link...
It looks like any 13 Scamp would be legal without brakes in 44 states,and many in 49, maybe just one in all 50.
Just about any Scamp16 would be legal in 42 states without brakes
Both would be legal in Canada without brakes, eventhough it has been many years (if ever) that a Scamp 16 was offered without brakes.
Brakes are required above 1500#gross weight in CA,GA,ID,NV,TN,...Above 1000# NC, 2000# MS,OH, the rest are 3000# or more.
NY says 3000# gross weight or 1000# empty, I counted an RV as GW laden.
Now, considering the accuracy of charts in general, I want to remind those who find issues, that I prefaced my post with the words...
"So, according to the link..."

I contend that you most likely would require brakes on your trailer/tow vehicle in KA and OR.

One other thing that's not pointed out in that chart, breakaway switches. A breakaway system is required on all trailers that brakes are required. That's a US federal law.
Beware, many of these charts aren't current and inaccuracies are not uncommon.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
I contend that you most likely would require brakes on your trailer/tow vehicle in KA and OR.

One other thing that's not pointed out in that chart, breakaway switches. A breakaway system is required on all trailers that brakes are required. That's a US federal law.
Beware, many of these charts aren't current and inaccuracies are not uncommon.
Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.
I wish I would have saved the URL. I don't think I'll spend a lot of time trying to find it. I installed a breakaway switch so I'm covered.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:14 AM   #35
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Federal Law 49CFR393.43 Not hard to Google the info. Here's someone that put the info out on their Blob: OH No......
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:30 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Except that they're not, Remember I said "So, according to the link..."
TWICE!
I would be interested in some confirmation on that "US federal law". That would mean "federal law" would apply differently from state to state which sounds odd.

The only regulation I can find (in a thirty second search) is
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Like you, I am no lawyer (But I did sleep in a Scamp recently)
I think "Motor Carrier" regulations refer to commercial vehicles which Require brakes according to the USDOT.
In addition to the obvious source supporting that conclusion....This would reconcile my afforementioned scepticism.
I assume this is the regulation which inspired your comment, Am I correct?
At any rate I'll go take a nap in my Scamp and report back.

Here it is......
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations 393.43 paragraph (d)

Quote:
d) Breakaway braking requirements for trailers. Every trailer required to be equipped with brakes shall have brakes which apply automatically and immediately upon breakaway from the towing vehicle. With the exception of trailers having three or more axles, all brakes with which the trailer is required to be equipped must be applied upon breakaway from the towing vehicle. The brakes must remain in the applied position for at least 15 minutes.
NOTE: There is no reference to heavy trucking.

Here's a link to brochure put out by the Missouri Highway Patrol. Link
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:24 PM   #37
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When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:29 PM   #38
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Donna see what you started. LOL
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg H View Post
When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.
usually you'll see those long marks just before an exit...lotta "tractor" owners pulling freight decide its easier to apply the trailer brake(they have a lever) than put wear and tear on their own stuff.....so they drag the trailer, lotta times causing those long stripes you see. Thats alot more common than anything breaking and applying the brakes
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg H View Post
When the trailer breaks away from a semi tractor the airlines will also break and release all of the air which activates the spring brakes on the trailer therefore locking the trailer brakes and coming to a smokey stop. Ever see those real long skid marks on the highway? That's where an air line has come off the tractor or where an airline has broken and automatically set the spring brake.
That's also why you see a truck that's set for a bit needing to idle before moving, the pressure has to build up to the release the brakes.
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Thomas View Post
usually you'll see those long marks just before an exit...lotta "tractor" owners pulling freight decide its easier to apply the trailer brake(they have a lever) than put wear and tear on their own stuff.....so they drag the trailer, lotta times causing those long stripes you see. Thats alot more common than anything breaking and applying the brakes
After 23 years of driving semi trucks and two of those leasing my own truck I never drug the trailer tires like that, the valve we call a trolley valve does only apply the trailer brakes and a lot of drivers do use it to save there brakes but if they are dragging those 8 trailer tires all the time they are pretty stupid.
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
Here it is......
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations 393.43 paragraph (d)



NOTE: There is no reference to heavy trucking.

Here's a link to brochure put out by the Missouri Highway Patrol. Link
I think there is,reread my comment #33, when was the last time you slept in your Scamp?
You are right , it is not hard to google since that is the exact script which I quoted in the first place. It must be just hard to read, or interpret.
Still, we digress since I said originally..."So, according to the link..."
It is an interesting question with different conclusions, but as you say you are covered.

Revisit...
I just checked what I could find on Illinois breakaway switch requirements...

"RV Safety Requirements: Safety chains and flares required on all trailers. Trailers over 3,000 lbs.: trailer brakes. Over 5,000 lbs.: brakes on all axles and breakaway switch."

Recreational Trailers under 5000# require no breakaway switch.
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