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07-11-2019, 02:49 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
That looks like an open frame rail.
Is the bolt sticking through into the channel?
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That is what I asked in post #10, but didn't get an answer.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
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07-11-2019, 02:57 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Name: Terry
Trailer: 1971 Hunter compact Jr, 1979 Terry 19', 2003 Scamp 16'
California
Posts: 197
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I'm glad it came out easily. I'm also glad you didn't take my suggestion to weld on to the bolt. The more I have thought about it I believe threads could have became welded to the frame threads If they were not very tight they could have arched during welding. I have done something similar on equipment, but I have used epoxy.
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07-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspy
That is what I asked in post #10, but didn't get an answer.
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I was late and lazy so I didn't read everything!
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07-11-2019, 04:07 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Weld prohibitions are for Semi truck and straight truck frames.
I have never seen a "Do Not Weld" note for a car or light truck.
Keep your ground tight and close to the weld to prevent electronic damage due to a spike. MIG would be best.
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07-11-2019, 04:38 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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The frame rail in the back of the truck is open, but the cross member for the spare tire attaches right at this same point. Getting pliers and a hand to work them through there would probably be more frustrating than drilling the bolt out...
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07-11-2019, 04:39 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz
I'm just trying to understand why it would break. Lubrication would lower the torque value but I suspect you know that. Any time you torque a bolt you stretch it. Perhaps the lesson is to not reuse bolts that have experienced high torque. Over the years I've had my share of broke bolts, on my back drilling, grinding, etc. so I know where you were at. Thanks for posting.
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Yeah, no idea. Could be my torque wrench wasn't working right and I just gave it way too much. Could be the bolt was only meant to be used once. I really don't know. Either way, I'll have two new bolts in there soon.
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07-12-2019, 08:39 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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Hidden Hitch no longer makes a hitch for my truck, so it was hard to track down an installation guide...I finally found one. The directions say to torque the front bolts to 60 ft/lbs. That might be it. I think I was trying 90 or 100.
Now it's just a matter of tracking down the right bolt. The local hardware store had some that looked right, but the pitch must be off. I'm going to try an auto parts store and see if they have the right pitch.
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07-12-2019, 02:13 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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Thanks Karin.
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07-12-2019, 04:28 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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FWIW, the bolt that was in there was metric grade 8.8, equivalent to an SAE grade 5. I replaced it with the equivalent of grade 8, which in metric is 10.9.
I'm back in business. Good thing I've had a couple week run of house-sitting for all these projects!
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07-12-2019, 05:04 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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It is a good thing the head broke off as it was probably already cracked due to over torquing previously.
As to welding High strength low carbon steels used in newer vehicles the problem is that many are heat treated and if welded on the heat treat is destroyed and also often welding creates a heating zone distortion and stress that leads to cracking in the heat affected area.
Most manufacturers recommend that a frame section be removed back to where it si connected with spot welding or bolted connections.
The issue is not that welding will not take, but the frame is no longer in it's proper heat treat state and may crack without warning.
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07-13-2019, 01:37 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Posts: 5,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachO
FWIW, the bolt that was in there was metric grade 8.8, equivalent to an SAE grade 5. I replaced it with the equivalent of grade 8, which in metric is 10.9.
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That explains it. That's why it broke. You should have been using a metric torque wrench scaled in newton-meters.
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07-14-2019, 07:52 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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I can't tell if that's a joke..
Either way, a grade 5 bolt torqued 30 ft/lbs higher than the instructions call for may be the reason, not that I know the physics of bolt torques.
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07-14-2019, 08:33 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Posts: 5,185
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Every once in a while we get a metric vs sae discussion. Just a joke along those lines.
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07-14-2019, 09:20 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Name: Z
Trailer: Sasquatch
Montana
Posts: 2,556
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Got it. That one was a little over my head
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07-15-2019, 07:37 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Posts: 1,158
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try russian motorcycles, there you get "kilogram force per newton metre"
and what a joy that is to convert to anything remotely understandable
Joe
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07-17-2019, 10:47 AM
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#37
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Junior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: Boler
Ontario
Posts: 19
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Broken Bolt Removal
Having quite a bit of experience removing broken bolts from engine blocks, frames and so on, I will say 1. DO NOT WELD. 2. Try and remove the bolt from the top and if you can not get a grip in the bolt 3. drill out the bolt. The secret to drilling out a bolt is getting the first small hole in the center. If you screw up and do not get it perfectly in the center, don't worry, there is a fix. All you have to do is drill the broken bolt out enough to get a tap in the hole and thread the nut by drilling bigger and bigger. Even if that fails to work, drill out the hole completely and use a new nut and bolt of grade 8 in strength or greater.
Moral of the story is:
1. DO NOT WELD. This presents many issues and takes you down a road that causes issues.
2. remove the bolt from the top
3. drill the whole thing out and use new nut and bolt.
Good Luck
Steve
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07-17-2019, 10:52 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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If you have to drill for an ezout etc. then the best bet is a nice new left hand twist drill.
many times as you drill the fastener catches on the turning bit and takes itself out.
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07-17-2019, 11:25 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Name: Tim
Trailer: '88 Scamp 16, layout 4
North Florida
Posts: 1,547
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I was thinking about the left hand drill but RB beat me to it. They can be handy. I am glad you did not take the advice to “just weld it”. I have nothing in particular against welding. I do it a lot and under the right circumstances it can work very well. I did not consider your situation the right circumstance. As a last resort maybe, but it may have added additional issues now and in the future. Like not being able to easily take the hitch off or something. You never know what the future might bring, don’t jump right to the “nuclear option”.
Another old trick that I have been surprised actually works sometimes is tapping in a circular motion on the broken piece with a sharp pointed chisel. Believe it or not I have actually backed broken bolt stubs out this way. It is slow and aggravating but just might work. Maybe if open on the other side you could have screwed it on through and out. Just another trick on your tool belt, in addition to welding.
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07-17-2019, 01:10 PM
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#40
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Junior Member
Name: Norman
Trailer: In the market
Georgia
Posts: 9
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A lot of cheap bolts are coming out of China nowadays which will ring off when torqued to the chart value.
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