Some Towing Thoughts

[honda03842]

At any speed, on flat ground the amount of horsepower required to propel a vehicle is mostly determined by the frontal area and the coefficient of drag.

Double the frontal area and the amount of horsepower required to propel the car doubles.

Double the coefficient of drag and the horsepower required doubles.

I have included a table of the coefficient of drag for many vehicles to provide as a reference. You have to scroll down thru the article to find the Coefficient of drag table. Obviously all manufacturers are working to reduce the coefficient of drag, particularly for their high mileage vehicles since smaller numbers directly results in better miles per gallon.

Automobile drag coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is interesting to note that the typical truck has a high coefficient of drag of .60 while a Subaru Forester has a coefficient of drag of .33. Simply speaking it takes about twice the horsepower for the truck to go as fast as the Subaru not even taking into account the smaller frontal area of the Subaru.

Of course a towing situation consists of a tow vehicle and a trailer. Normally the tow vehicle has a smaller frontal area than the trailer. As to horsepower required it deals with both the tow vehicle and trailer.

As to trailer shape the coefficient of drag of a cube is 1.05; the coefficient of drag for a sphere is .47 about 1/2 that value of the cube. Of course the box trailers are not strictly cubes nor the fiberglass trailers spheres but it does indicate there is a difference benefiting the more streamlined rounded fiberglass trailers.

I'm not an expert in this area but at least it can serve to make you more aware.

[honda03842]

Carol,

Certainly as MC1 states wind tunnel tests are more accurate, however that wasn't posted or at least read at the time I wrote my statement. In any case both results prove the point and no one should be surprised, less horsepower is required for non-boxy shapes. This also suggests that the absolute weight of a trailer is not the only factor in tow-ability.

We definitely need to praise people like Andy who are not simply selling trailers but considering and testing trailers under towing conditions. There are people manufacturing and selling trailers that virtually never use them.

As to being more relaxed in the Odyssey over our Honda CRV. I seriously doubt it. The CRV has served us extremely well, taken us every where we wanted to go and even down some particularly unfriendly roads, always without complaint or failure wile giving good mpg. Giving up the CRV is going to be difficult, we were very comfortable driving and towing with it.

I know many were opposed to our towing with it but we never, never had any misgivings. It met our needs and all the towing needs of the trailers we owned.

That said I'm sure we'll love the Odyssey, it has an outstanding reputation and Ginny feels that the next part of our life, partly beyond towing, requires a bigger vehicle hence we'll get the Odyssey though if there were a CRV diesel with manual transmission.........

Safe travels to you,

[Nut501]

Norm,
When you get your new Odyssey or you going to get a new Scamp, also?

Carl

[melissab]

I went the opposite direction as you Norm. I had a Toyota Sienna and downsized to a Toyota RAV4. While I love the Rav for town driving and it's a very competent tow vehicle actually having more power I miss the room in my Sienna!! You never think you will use 17 cup holders or all the cubbies but it's amazing how much you do when traveling cross country with 4 people, lol. If it wasn't for the lower hitch clearance issues I always had to be so careful with and even being limited in some instances (ie gas stations with sharp entrances) I would go back to a minivan in a second. As it is I'm thinking of a Highlander or Explorer type vehicle to regain the 7 passenger seating and extra space. I just hate to take the hit on the gas mileage. I'm getting 5mpg better town driving with my RAV than I did my minivan and I do a lot of driving taking the kids to school, sports, friends and other activities. Enjoy your new Oddy. I'm jelly lol

[honda03842]

Melissa,

I'm actually curious about the Odyssey compared to our ancient CRV. Basically 2014 Odyssey has the same EPA mileage rating as the 2004 Honda CRV. They accomplish this with a 6 speed transmission and engine management, the ability to shut off cylinders when full power isn't required.

It has built in 'instantaneous mpg' read out and while driving it often was well above 30 mpg.

As to in town driving, we really don't do too much of that. We live in the a small town on the seacoast of NH and there really isn't a lot of in town traffic, unless you go to the tourist beach area and we don't in July or August. You are right though, from what I read the city driving will be worse than the highway driving compared to the CRV.

Honestly I'll probably yearn for the CRV but Ginny thinks an automatic may be better as we get older and we made need the volume as we age and our lives change. We do expect this to be our last vehicle... but who can measure the future.

[RogerDat]

We traveled in our older than yours CRV and despite having more overall room in the Ford Escape I actually find it less suited to travel. I missed the open space between the seat for snacks the most. But that was maybe a late 90's CRV and the horse power was really low (500 lb. tow capacity) and it was sort of boxy so wind was sometimes an issue for MPG in head winds and cross winds. But we really liked it overall.

The Odyssey is a nice vehicle and I am sure after you get all settled in and acclimated to it's differences you will enjoy. Does Ginny steer you wrong very often? I didn't think so. Worst case you decide you don't like it and try something else. But I totally get your CRV being a tough act to follow. And personally I miss having a stick shift, until I get stuck in slow moving traffic then the whole automatic thing seems pretty nice.

[honda03842]

Roger,

Certainly Ginny always has my best interests in mind. Some of her reasons for wanting an Odyssey I agree with. Her weakness is not being bold, something people seem to like in her.

I have told my children that they should try to emulate her mother and not me, her core is better than mine.

I suspect I'll grow to love the Odyssey as you suggest and probably wonder why I didn't own automatics.

We are big snackers while driving and access to the back is valuable and even better in the base Odyssey.

Safe travels,

[Nut501]

Norm,
Come on an admit the truth! You are old enough to know who wears the pants in the family? There are two words that will never get you in any trouble, and they are "YES HONEY!" Ha!

Carl

[honda03842]

Ginny's attitude is that in a good relationship one person has to be in charge and the other has to be listened to for input. We both wear jeans when traveling.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by honda03842

We both wear jeans when traveling.

And so you should Norm. It's only when you two become seniors that you have to start wearing polyester slacks!

[Nut501]

Originally Posted by MC1

And so you should Norm. It's only when you two become seniors that you have to start wearing polyester slacks!

I agree it is either polyester or we start wearing depends!
HA! Ain't growing old great!!!!!

Carl

[honda03842]

W- We're well past the seniors stage. When we retired we were among the younger long term travelers though on our way to Alaska we met a young family who were home schooling their children and traveling. I would have absolutely loved that as a child, with the Internet you barely need a school.

I was not so open to change as a young parent in the sense when the kids were in the 10-13 year range I thought moving them from their school system would be disruptive for them.

I had been offered a job running a company in Seattle but choose not to pursue it. One day the boys came across the offer on my desk and were disappointed that I had not taken it. They were up to the adventure of change. I should have been smarter and asked them.

Never underestimate your family.

[honda03842]

Wayne,

From our hippie days we each always carry 3 pairs pf jeans.

When I was in the rock and roll business I had a flowered pair of jeans Ginny made for me. They went well with my beard, long hair and leather 'purse' and boots. At the time we lived on a Geodesic dome some 50' in diameter. (No wonder my kids were into change.) The dome was white and we had laser light shows on the dome.

Those were the times.....

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Wayne,

.... The dome was white and we had laser light shows on the dome.

Those were the times.....

Hmmm isn't your camper a white dome of sorts? Laser light shows would certainly make an interesting campground show.

Show em how it's done old school and cool.

[honda03842]

The dome had a fiberglass exterior. We built three of them in about 10 days. Sort of like an old time barn raising.

The domes came as kits, big wooden fiberglass triangles, 2x6s to make a domed spider web using connectors. The 2x6s went up in a day. Then 2x6s were covered with plywood and seams glassed.

Friends came with hammers to nail on the plywood. Our wives cooked up a storm every lunch and supper. Truly a life time experience.

We lived in one another to manufacture electronic drums.

Life has been fun.... Norm the former hippie.

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by honda03842

The dome had a fiberglass exterior. We built three of them in about 10 days. Sort of like an old time barn raising.

The domes came as kits, big wooden fiberglass triangles, 2x6s to make a domed spider web using connectors. The 2x6s went up in a day. Then 2x6s were covered with plywood and seams glassed.

Friends came with hammers to nail on the plywood. Our wives cooked up a storm every lunch and supper. Truly a life time experience.

We lived in one another to manufacture electronic drums.

Life has been fun.... Norm the former hippie.

Our family built a 50' 5/8 dome on a 16 sided basement back in the early 70's Norm. It was for my only brother (older, and a died-in-the-wool motor homer) and his wife. Seems to me we got it up and covered in a weekend, my dad, my brother John, brother-in-law Richard and me. I haven't thought about that in a long time! Suffice it to say, I had at least shoulder length hair!

Frank

[honda03842]

Frank,
As I recall the entire dome kit cost $1500 in 1970, $1000 for shipping., for a 2000 square foot building, 25 feet high in the center.

[frank_a]

I have no clue Norm. My brother was buying the stuff, I was just unpaid labor. We ate good that weekend though. My mom was a cook extraordinaire.

Those were different days.

And you were a musician eh? My dad was the lead guy for a band called the Triple Tones, busy every weekend, often with a couple jobs. Couple of accountants and a mechanic buddy of theirs. They had a grand time, and made money to boot.

We're packing for the 2nd trip with our egg. First one was cold and wet and short. We're hoping this is none of those! We celebrating the holiday as well as our 40th wedding anniversary.

Frank

[honda03842]

Frank.

We're celebrating our 50th this year, August 29th. The kids have rented a campground on a lake for the weekend, a family overnight party.

Our trip to Newfoundland this year was our personal 50th celebration. I hope to celebrate our 51st there as well.

I really not a musician, I can't even play a whistle though I've owned all or parts of two musical instrument companies.

After my Dad died the president of the company I worked for recognized I was depressed and sent Ginny, our oldest son and me to Nice, France and told me to "stay there until you're feeling better". They had some projects I could work on.

Well in the 3rd month I got a call from a friend in the states asking me if I wanted to start an electronic music instrument company. Not knowing anything about music, or worse electronic music, I said sure.

The start of a new career in music, an instant decision for the new, really not much different in principle to how I became a RVer.

Sometimes a gut choice, simply following your instinct, takes you down a surprisingly worthwhile path. Frank, probably just like your marriage. Sounds like you and your wife made a solid choice.

Have a wonderful anniversary.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Frank,
As I recall the entire dome kit cost $1500 in 1970, $1000 for shipping., for a 2000 square foot building, 25 feet high in the center.

One of my high school classmates (Class of '73) built one of those right after graduation and made it into a two-story bar with a small stage for a live band - calls it the Silverdome Saloon & Music Hall - in Silver Cliff, Colorado. He's still running it, and it's still a rocking little hangout for local rowdies and weekend road warriors.