Some Towing Thoughts - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-02-2014, 07:52 AM   #15
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Tom,
Thanks for the kind words. I have never thought about writing a book about RVing but I have thought about a book about Newfoundland and Labrador, mainly because I love the province and there reakky are no good RV travel books for the province.

Fortunately after I retired I would often work, just for fun, with a very accomplished woman editor friend who had edited 100's of books. I came to realize that writing a book is real work.

Not too surprising, one of my careers was in music, rock and roll. I found that really good performers practiced every day for many hours. To be good requires real work. I've done that in much of my life but now I'm retired.

I do occasionally challenge myself with 'paper inventions', but do recognize at almost 72 I do not have the time to bring them to fruition and to RV and to spend time with Ginny. Like when I was 17, I find my focus on Ginny (and our road life). It's a good choice and really fun; fortunately she feels the same way.
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:44 AM   #16
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It was worth a try, Norm. We'll have to be content with your posts here on the forum. I guessed that might be your reaction.

I once read that J.R.R. Tolken wrote the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings Trilogy in the form of letters to his son, a British Soldier stationed in India. He did it to keep his son entertained, never dreaming they would be published. Just trying to plant a seed....

I've never been to Newfoundland or Labrador. I did spend a month in New Brunswick with the Canadian Army. We were based in Gagetown near Fredricton. I was in an air assault unit, and saw the province from a Huey helicopter vantage point. Beautiful country! The civilians treated us very well, and I can never say enough about the dedicated troops north of our border. I see the draw to the eastern provinces.

Tom
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:55 AM   #17
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I have greatly appreciated your input, and continue to read your thoughts with pleasure. Thanks and enjoy your cottage at the beach this summer!

Bee
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
The most important part of this link is that there's someone in the is thinking about these issues and doing first order testing and experimentation.

In this case Andy was not testing an Airstream and clearly states the test speed. I would surely be happy if there were people who wanted to do more rigorous testing. Until then Andy deserves to be praised for his efforts.
Norm I would be sure to praise Andy if he had in fact done the testing and experimentation. But the fine print at the bottom of the test results shows it was done by a Dr. Buckley at the Univ. of Maryland.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:40 AM   #19
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Carol, The test I referenced was done by Andy Thompson. I can understand how you could miss that because the moderators seemed to have deleted MC1's posting on the original test in a previous post on this thread.

For your benefit and others I'm including a link to the deleted link.

Can-Am RV :: HH 38-1

It is interesting and well worth reading as is MC1's other post on the effect of shape on tow vehicle loading.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:59 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
Carol, The test I referenced was done by Andy Thompson. I can understand how you could miss that because the moderators seemed to have deleted MC1's posting on the original test in a previous post on this thread.

For your benefit and others I'm including a link to the deleted link.

Can-Am RV :: HH 38-1

It is interesting and well worth reading as is MC1's other post on the effect of shape on tow vehicle loading.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Norm for the link but I will stick to test results done correctly using wind tunnels and published by a Univ.

BTW Congrats on your decision to purchase a new larger tug. Think you find it give you even more enjoyable/relaxing travel.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:09 AM   #21
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Coefficient of drag.

At any speed, on flat ground the amount of horsepower required to propel a vehicle is mostly determined by the frontal area and the coefficient of drag.

Double the frontal area and the amount of horsepower required to propel the car doubles.

Double the coefficient of drag and the horsepower required doubles.

I have included a table of the coefficient of drag for many vehicles to provide as a reference. You have to scroll down thru the article to find the Coefficient of drag table. Obviously all manufacturers are working to reduce the coefficient of drag, particularly for their high mileage vehicles since smaller numbers directly results in better miles per gallon.

Automobile drag coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is interesting to note that the typical truck has a high coefficient of drag of .60 while a Subaru Forester has a coefficient of drag of .33. Simply speaking it takes about twice the horsepower for the truck to go as fast as the Subaru not even taking into account the smaller frontal area of the Subaru.

Of course a towing situation consists of a tow vehicle and a trailer. Normally the tow vehicle has a smaller frontal area than the trailer. As to horsepower required it deals with both the tow vehicle and trailer.

As to trailer shape the coefficient of drag of a cube is 1.05; the coefficient of drag for a sphere is .47 about 1/2 that value of the cube. Of course the box trailers are not strictly cubes nor the fiberglass trailers spheres but it does indicate there is a difference benefiting the more streamlined rounded fiberglass trailers.

I'm not an expert in this area but at least it can serve to make you more aware.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:27 AM   #22
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Wind Tunnel tests and Odyssey

Carol,

Certainly as MC1 states wind tunnel tests are more accurate, however that wasn't posted or at least read at the time I wrote my statement. In any case both results prove the point and no one should be surprised, less horsepower is required for non-boxy shapes. This also suggests that the absolute weight of a trailer is not the only factor in tow-ability.

We definitely need to praise people like Andy who are not simply selling trailers but considering and testing trailers under towing conditions. There are people manufacturing and selling trailers that virtually never use them.

As to being more relaxed in the Odyssey over our Honda CRV. I seriously doubt it. The CRV has served us extremely well, taken us every where we wanted to go and even down some particularly unfriendly roads, always without complaint or failure wile giving good mpg. Giving up the CRV is going to be difficult, we were very comfortable driving and towing with it.

I know many were opposed to our towing with it but we never, never had any misgivings. It met our needs and all the towing needs of the trailers we owned.

That said I'm sure we'll love the Odyssey, it has an outstanding reputation and Ginny feels that the next part of our life, partly beyond towing, requires a bigger vehicle hence we'll get the Odyssey though if there were a CRV diesel with manual transmission.........

Safe travels to you,
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:56 AM   #23
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Wind Tunnel tests and Odyssey

Norm,
When you get your new Odyssey or you going to get a new Scamp, also?

Carl
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:01 AM   #24
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I went the opposite direction as you Norm. I had a Toyota Sienna and downsized to a Toyota RAV4. While I love the Rav for town driving and it's a very competent tow vehicle actually having more power I miss the room in my Sienna!! You never think you will use 17 cup holders or all the cubbies but it's amazing how much you do when traveling cross country with 4 people, lol. If it wasn't for the lower hitch clearance issues I always had to be so careful with and even being limited in some instances (ie gas stations with sharp entrances) I would go back to a minivan in a second. As it is I'm thinking of a Highlander or Explorer type vehicle to regain the 7 passenger seating and extra space. I just hate to take the hit on the gas mileage. I'm getting 5mpg better town driving with my RAV than I did my minivan and I do a lot of driving taking the kids to school, sports, friends and other activities. Enjoy your new Oddy. I'm jelly lol
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:47 AM   #25
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Melissa,

I'm actually curious about the Odyssey compared to our ancient CRV. Basically 2014 Odyssey has the same EPA mileage rating as the 2004 Honda CRV. They accomplish this with a 6 speed transmission and engine management, the ability to shut off cylinders when full power isn't required.

It has built in 'instantaneous mpg' read out and while driving it often was well above 30 mpg.

As to in town driving, we really don't do too much of that. We live in the a small town on the seacoast of NH and there really isn't a lot of in town traffic, unless you go to the tourist beach area and we don't in July or August. You are right though, from what I read the city driving will be worse than the highway driving compared to the CRV.

Honestly I'll probably yearn for the CRV but Ginny thinks an automatic may be better as we get older and we made need the volume as we age and our lives change. We do expect this to be our last vehicle... but who can measure the future.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:03 PM   #26
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We traveled in our older than yours CRV and despite having more overall room in the Ford Escape I actually find it less suited to travel. I missed the open space between the seat for snacks the most. But that was maybe a late 90's CRV and the horse power was really low (500 lb. tow capacity) and it was sort of boxy so wind was sometimes an issue for MPG in head winds and cross winds. But we really liked it overall.

The Odyssey is a nice vehicle and I am sure after you get all settled in and acclimated to it's differences you will enjoy. Does Ginny steer you wrong very often? I didn't think so. Worst case you decide you don't like it and try something else. But I totally get your CRV being a tough act to follow. And personally I miss having a stick shift, until I get stuck in slow moving traffic then the whole automatic thing seems pretty nice.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:29 PM   #27
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Roger,

Certainly Ginny always has my best interests in mind. Some of her reasons for wanting an Odyssey I agree with. Her weakness is not being bold, something people seem to like in her.

I have told my children that they should try to emulate her mother and not me, her core is better than mine.

I suspect I'll grow to love the Odyssey as you suggest and probably wonder why I didn't own automatics.

We are big snackers while driving and access to the back is valuable and even better in the base Odyssey.

Safe travels,
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:40 PM   #28
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Norm,
Come on an admit the truth! You are old enough to know who wears the pants in the family? There are two words that will never get you in any trouble, and they are "YES HONEY!" Ha!

Carl
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