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09-01-2011, 05:41 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Name: Don
Trailer: Still deciding, but changing my mind from the Casita FD to the Lil Snoozy!
Texas
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew GPSMapNut
Just to be clear; did this study showed that it was the drivers driving at or near the speed limit that were at fault for collisions of vehicles that were exciting speed limit or, just maybe, it was drivers that were driving substantially below the speed limit that were causing the trouble?
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Traffic collisions are more often caused by people driving slower than the surrounding traffic, even if the traffic as a whole is traveling above the speed limit. They are all moving together and that is the goal.
For example, the person who sits in the left lane (the fast lane) and drives so slow that the surrounding traffic has to change lanes to pass them. The left land is traditionally and sometimes legally the passing lane. In most state driver manuals, it states slower traffic to the right to avoid obstructing traffic and faster traffic to the left.
Then on my regularly traveled 4-lane (in each direction) freeway that I have driven on four times today already, there is the person in the second lane from the left also driving so slow (compared to the flow of traffic) that they cause traffic to slow down and change lanes. If they are gonna be that slow, be in lane four or at least lane three. Seriously I see it several times a week. I see the left lane slow-pokes every time I get on the highway.
Earlier in this week, the traffic was moving along fine and suddenly began slowing down, and continuing to slow down, very slow. Finally when I reached the front, there was a car in lane two driving about 40 MPH forcing all the traffic to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting someone. Most of the traffic was driving 6o to 70 mph until coming upon this dork causing the problems. He had FOUR LANES and he chose one of the two fastest lanes to drive 20 mph below the speed limit and 25-30 slower than surrounding traffic. People who drive like THAT are the main cause of traffic collisions.
The issue is not the speed limit. The issue is the flow of traffic and obstructing traffic.
For safety's sake, put away your dang ego and let the person pass. It won't kill you and may prevent an accident. The speed limit is irrelevant in that situation. You are not a cop and it is not your job to teach the other person a lesson.
Comprende??
D*
(FYI, I am preaching to myself as well. After going through that training, watching videos and teaching the class, I still drive fast, but I do not obstruct traffic, nor to I hang out in the left lane "just to teach them a lesson.")
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09-01-2011, 06:15 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Name: Andrew
Trailer: Modified Trillium Jubilee
Ontario
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallDon
>>>>snip>>>>
The issue is not the speed limit. The issue is the flow of traffic and obstructing traffic.
For safety's sake, put away your dang ego and let the person pass. It won't kill you and may prevent an accident. The speed limit is irrelevant in that situation. You are not a cop and it is not your job to teach the other person a lesson.
Comprende??
D*
(FYI, I am preaching to myself as well. After going through that training, watching videos and teaching the class, I still drive fast, but I do not obstruct traffic, nor to I hang out in the left lane "just to teach them a lesson.")
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Err, I don't think that I said that I don't let people pass nor that I try to teach people how to drive. At the same time, I refuse to be "thought" that driving above speed limit is OK even that I often do so myself.
I fully agree that the left lane(s) is for the faster traffic / passing. Right lane for slow traffic and if I'm comfy driving slower than most traffic I stick to the right lane so, I don't get the comment about my "ego".
BTW. Maybe, just maybe, I have enough kilometres safely logged on multi-lane highways including the busiest highway in the North America to teach instructors how to do it safely.
__________________
I wish to be one day at least half as good as I think I am today. Andrew Kalinowski
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09-01-2011, 06:36 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Name: Don
Trailer: Still deciding, but changing my mind from the Casita FD to the Lil Snoozy!
Texas
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew GPSMapNut
BTW. Maybe, just maybe, I have enough kilometres safely logged on multi-lane highways including the busiest highway in the North America to teach instructors how to do it safely.
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Sorry, it wasn't a slam at you personally. I will respond when i get back to my computer and off my phone.
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09-01-2011, 08:53 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Name: Don
Trailer: Still deciding, but changing my mind from the Casita FD to the Lil Snoozy!
Texas
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew GPSMapNut
BTW. Maybe, just maybe, I have enough kilometres safely logged on multi-lane highways including the busiest highway in the North America to teach instructors how to do it safely.
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Now I can write. I didn't mean for it to be a slam at you personally. Sorry about that. In general we all drive with our ego. I know I do. But when teaching people who had received traffic tickets for breaking the law, I would stand in front of a class and present the facts of an issue supported with video evidence, and people would argue with it, with me, as though I was attacking them personally.
All I'm saying to everyone is has already been said, fast lane to the left, slower lanes to the right. But everyone here already knows this. Heck, most folks here have lots of experience already towing and pulling their house behind them, plenty more experience towing than I do.
As my life is now, I drive around 26,000 to 30,000 miles a year and rarely leave town. That's one reason I hate living in Dallas, a town spread out more than most. I work on four corners of town, requiring driving WAY to much for the financial return. And most of it is on two multiple-lane freeways. But I'm looking forward to the time where my driving will be OUT of the city, headed AWAY from this town and towards new adventures with old friends and new friends. Unless I change my mind, it will involve pulling a new Casita!!
D*
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09-02-2011, 12:01 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
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I think the correct way to present this information is that it is speed differentials that trigger accidents, not just speed.
Of course, the people to blame for creating all those dangerous speed differentials is everyone who isn't driving at the same speed as me - after all, I drive at the 'right' speed.
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09-02-2011, 12:50 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Name: Don
Trailer: Still deciding, but changing my mind from the Casita FD to the Lil Snoozy!
Texas
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens
Of course, the people to blame for creating all those dangerous speed differentials is everyone who isn't driving at the same speed as me - after all, I drive at the 'right' speed.
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Andrew, it's good to meet someone who drives at the same speed as I. Now why don't those other folks move over...my ice creme is melting!!
D*
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09-06-2011, 01:24 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: ,Bigfoot 25 foot plus Surfside 14 foot
British Columbia
Posts: 1,148
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I guess to me the "right speed" varies with circumstances. I don't want to be the fastest car on the road - at least not always! I REALLY do not want to be the slowest either. Out in the flatlands of the US "Great Plains" or Canadian Prairies it seems that about 75-85 mph just "feels right" - its a very comfortable speed - towing or not. In the mountains, after dark, on twisty-winding roads - obviously that is neither smart or prudent. In bad weather, rain, sleet, snow etc - a prudent speed is MUCH slower than on the same road in daytime. I would never try to do 75-85 if all the other traffic is going either much faster (it happens!) or much slower. I tend to 'go with the flow' and drive at a speed that feels comfortable to me.
As to the effect of speed on fuel mileage - if I can't afford to take the trip, I don't go!
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09-06-2011, 07:53 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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Not being able to afford it is NOT the issue. I CHOOSE to drive slower because I feel more comfortable driving at 55 MPH , I see more scenery ,and enjoy my travels more . I choose to spend my money on other things besides gas. The savings from driving at 55 MPH is a bonus and not my primary reason for traveling.
Steve D.
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09-06-2011, 08:04 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Steve,
I'm with you. I drive more slowly, take more scenic roads because I can and it's more enjoyable. As well it is safer.
I do understand that many people are still in the rush stages of their lives, working, families and so on.
It's true that when you get west people can drive faster and still be safe because there are simply fewer cars on the road.
Regardless how comfortable speed seems, it definitely leaves less margin. The energy of the vehicle increases as the square of the velocity; a car going 85 mph has twice the energy to dissipate compared to a car going 55 mph.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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09-06-2011, 07:52 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19 (was 2005 16 ft Scamp Side Dinette and 2005 Fleetwood (Coleman) Taos pop-up)
Posts: 1,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallDon
Earlier in this week, the traffic was moving along fine and suddenly began slowing down, and continuing to slow down, very slow. Finally when I reached the front, there was a car in lane two driving about 40 MPH forcing all the traffic to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting someone. Most of the traffic was driving 6o to 70 mph until coming upon this dork causing the problems. He had FOUR LANES and he chose one of the two fastest lanes to drive 20 mph below the speed limit and 25-30 slower than surrounding traffic. People who drive like THAT are the main cause of traffic collisions.
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Living in Dallas, you should be used to traffic going slow without notice.
Scary though when you think that someone needs to slam on their brakes to avoid traffic going 40 MPH; what are they going to do when they discover the traffic ahead of them is at a complete stop, as in traffic jam? That might cause them to drop their cell phone!
I was a state certified driving safety instructor in Nebraska, and the studies we read showed that only 2% of accidents were caused by rear-ending, but that was in the days before cell phones and texting were popular.
I generally travel about 60 MPH in the right lane when I'm pulling the camper and haven't worried too much about being rear-ended or holding anyone up. I find that a lot more big trucks seem to be travelling about that speed now too.
John
__________________
Dave (and Marilyn who is now watching from above)
Sharpsburg, GA
04 Dodge Dakota V-8, 17 Dodge Durango V-6, 19 Ford Ranger 2.3 Ecoboost
radar1-scamping.blogspot.com
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09-06-2011, 08:38 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar1
Living in Dallas, you should be used to traffic going slow without notice.
Scary though when you think that someone needs to slam on their brakes to avoid traffic going 40 MPH; what are they going to do when they discover the traffic ahead of them is at a complete stop, as in traffic jam? That might cause them to drop their cell phone!
I was a state certified driving safety instructor in Nebraska, and the studies we read showed that only 2% of accidents were caused by rear-ending, but that was in the days before cell phones and texting were popular.
I generally travel about 60 MPH in the right lane when I'm pulling the camper and haven't worried too much about being rear-ended or holding anyone up. I find that a lot more big trucks seem to be travelling about that speed now too.
John
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I too drive about 60MPH when towing. A big difference is to also increase following distance for obvious reasons , but also to allow time to flash your brakes a couple of times to warn the traffic behind you.
When towing, if I suddenly come up on stopped or nearly stopped traffic I will lift and run my fourways as I approach if there is time.
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09-06-2011, 11:04 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: ,Bigfoot 25 foot plus Surfside 14 foot
British Columbia
Posts: 1,148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
I too drive about 60MPH when towing. A big difference is to also increase following distance for obvious reasons , but also to allow time to flash your brakes a couple of times to warn the traffic behind you.
When towing, if I suddenly come up on stopped or nearly stopped traffic I will lift and run my fourways as I approach if there is time.
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Ummm.... You can turn on your four-ways sans your trailer brakes applying every time the lights come on? Not sure I follow....
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09-07-2011, 04:54 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 815
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Your trailer brake controller should be connected to the brake pedal switch wire. Your four ways should not activate the brakes. If they do, that sounds like a serious safety issue.
__________________
-Jesse
SOLD! - 1984 Scamp 13 in Maryland.
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09-07-2011, 11:38 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: ,Bigfoot 25 foot plus Surfside 14 foot
British Columbia
Posts: 1,148
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4 way flashers
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew
Your trailer brake controller should be connected to the brake pedal switch wire. Your four ways should not activate the brakes. If they do, that sounds like a serious safety issue.
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Generally speaking - unless your tug has the separate brake lights and (usually orange) turn sigs - the 4 ways and turn sigs are a part of the brake light circuits - the 4 ways flash the "brake lights" - and hence power up the same circuit that your brake controller is tapped into. On every tug I own, (or have owned) putting on the 4-ways has applied the trailer brakes each time the rear lights come on. (and every brake controller has been professionally installed - by various and sundry hitch shops)
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09-07-2011, 07:50 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19 (was 2005 16 ft Scamp Side Dinette and 2005 Fleetwood (Coleman) Taos pop-up)
Posts: 1,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCDave
Generally speaking - unless your tug has the separate brake lights and (usually orange) turn sigs - the 4 ways and turn sigs are a part of the brake light circuits - the 4 ways flash the "brake lights" - and hence power up the same circuit that your brake controller is tapped into. On every tug I own, (or have owned) putting on the 4-ways has applied the trailer brakes each time the rear lights come on. (and every brake controller has been professionally installed - by various and sundry hitch shops)
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That shouldn't happen. If it did, then what's the sense in even having a brake controller if you get 12V to your brakes from the brake light wiring every time you apply the brakes or flashers? Your brake controller wiring is on a separate circuit and only allows a proportion of voltage to your brakes, from 0 to 12 depending on how hard you brake, but you have to be braking for any voltage to go through that wire (unless yours is wired incorrectly).
Both my vehicles were wired by me following the directions provided by Tekonsha and I do not have the problem you describe. Like Floyd, I apply my flashers when I come upon stopped traffic (I usually have advance notice from my CB radio) and the flashers do not apply the brakes.
You can easily test yours by turning on the flashers and then seeing if any voltage goes to the dedicated brake wire. If it does, there's a wiring problem.
John
__________________
Dave (and Marilyn who is now watching from above)
Sharpsburg, GA
04 Dodge Dakota V-8, 17 Dodge Durango V-6, 19 Ford Ranger 2.3 Ecoboost
radar1-scamping.blogspot.com
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09-07-2011, 08:13 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: none
Minnesota
Posts: 250
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I think 4 way flashers must be part of turn signal circuit not the brake circuit
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09-10-2011, 06:42 AM
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#57
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Senior Member
Trailer: 13 ft Trillium
Posts: 293
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A very interesting discussion on driving styles. When driving on a multilane highway, without my Trillium, I set the cruise control at the speed limit. I stay to the right and, yes, I am regularly passed like I'm standing still. I don't consider driving at the speed limit irresponsible. I have encountered many speed traps where multiple police cars are situated in dips in the highway picking off speeders and rotating back to their original position when the tickets are written. I understand an increasing number of jurisdictions are relying on traffic fines to compliment their tax base... and that makes sense. If you increase local taxes you upset the locals. If you write speeding fines for transients passing through it's easy money.
When towing my Trillium, 55-60 mph works for me. If traffic becomes heavy it's usually a good time to pull into a rest stop for a nap or cup of coffee; I don't enjoy towing in heavy traffic any more than those drivers around me wanted to pass. In my 'pre egg' days, I too would get annoyed by 'slow driving' RV's. Yes, I passed them. If I was involved in an accident during one of these passes I would have blamed the $#@! RV. But... I would have been at fault both logically and legally. The posted speed 'limit' is the legal maximum. I have seen lots of examples of drivers being fined for exceeding the posted limit. I am not aware of any drivers being ticketed for driving 5-10 mph under the maximum for 'obstructing' traffic. (It may have happened but certainly the number, if any, would be a mere fraction of those ticketed for speeding)
Also interesting is the likely hood that no ones driving habits will be changed by this discussion.
Barrie
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09-10-2011, 06:47 AM
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#58
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Bochoff
Also interesting is the likely hood that no ones driving habits will be changed by this discussion.
Barrie
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True, very true. And that's with any opinion. We just need to be nice and honor everyone's opinion as it's just as important to them as ours is to us.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
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09-13-2011, 03:37 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: ,Bigfoot 25 foot plus Surfside 14 foot
British Columbia
Posts: 1,148
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Apparently it is quite common for the 4-way flashers to trigger the trailer brakes every time the tug's brake lights come on. It gives the exact same effect as if you stepped on the brake pedal - the rear brake lights circuit is powered up, sending a signal to the brake controller. If the controller has an 'aggressive" setting - for example like one would set it when towing something big & heavy, then the controller starts the sequence of applying trailer brakes.
Since I always have my setting such that my stopping distance is essentially the same towing as it is when "running bobtailed", I guess I must be using "an aggressive" setting. (What's the use of having trailer brakes if you still have a huge stopping distance?)
On the e-trailer site they have a little gizmo (essentially a blocking diode with a mounting bracket) designed specifically to deal with this (somewhat common) problem.
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09-13-2011, 04:18 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Name: Don
Trailer: Still deciding, but changing my mind from the Casita FD to the Lil Snoozy!
Texas
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Bochoff
I am not aware of any drivers being ticketed for driving 5-10 mph under the maximum for 'obstructing' traffic.
Barrie
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In California, if you are driving and three vehicles pass you on the right, you get a ticket for obstructing traffic. It's the law. There are other laws but that one comes to mind.
Yesterday, on our eight lane expressway 4X4, I was one of five cars forced to pass (on the right) a slower moving white auto driving in the left lane. And there was a line still behind that car when I drove on.
D*
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