Spindle, Hub and Wheel Temperature - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-31-2016, 07:29 AM   #29
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Name: JD
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Nebraska
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Ian G: the axel is installed as a trailing arm. This doesn't preclude proper installation, but precludes the reversal issue somewhat.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a brake controller issue. I have been running the power setting at maximum since lock-up was not occurring. It could be a drag ratio problem between the trailer and tow vehicle.

So, I had the controller leveled and at maximum power. Just saying that seems like a hot braking issue. If I roll off the power I'm just wondering what value the brakes will have with minimal to modest engagement.


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Old 05-31-2016, 10:09 AM   #30
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Name: Darral
Trailer: Scamp Standard 13' 2010
Tennessee
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I did a test with my brakes up on jack stands. I had the wife apply my brake controller slowly while I spun the wheels until I felt them tighten (by brakes). She read the numbers off to me....(voltage). I compared BOTH sides and one was engaging WAY before the other.

IF the brakes were dragging while no brakes were applied in the TV....the hubs would STILL be heating up and you say they're not. I ran into this very phenomenon when I first adjusted the "road side" or driver's side brakes....and had to back it off some.

Ok...here's my theory....IF you're checking BOTH hubs while using brakes and they're the basically the same temperature? In my opinion, you do NOT have a braking problem...but possibly a controller setting issue!!

I use the Tekonsha Prodigy and you can adjust the "aggressiveness" of the controller. Meaning P1, P2, or P3. I run P1. If you set it on P3, you WILL feel the trailer "grab" the truck and I do NOT like that. I always test my trailer brakes when leaving the driveway by pulling the lever on my Prodigy and like that little "tug".

Finally, I have my brakes adjusted so that when I put on my truck brakes, it does not even feel like the trailer is connected and from all that I've read, that's how it SHOULD feel. The truck is not stopping the trailer nor is the trailer stopping truck. The trailer should stop itself!

And for what it's worth, if you try to get your 13' trailer brakes to "lock" or skid the wheels, you're chasing your tail...it's not going to happen with the 7" brakes....unless you're on gravel. And, you COULD test them on gravel to see if one or both will lock up...they should skid about the same time if they're both adjusted the same. (this would take the place of moving the lever and watching the voltage...may sound funny but it sure worked for me!)

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Originally Posted by JD Eben View Post
Update: This is definitely NOT a bearing issue. I just ran a 16 mile test with all trailer braking disengage. Spindles remained cool, well, cool enough for me to grab them as long as a wanted. I did this trip and test using brakes and the spindles were hot when finished. It appears the braking is causing the heat.

So, now what? I have noticed the while setting up the controller per the instructions, I was not able to "lock up" the trailer brakes by using the maximum power setting. This implies that they need adjustment but not sure how this generated excessive heat.

Is it possible that the spindle heat is just normal for an axel with brakes? Or, what's going on here?


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Old 05-31-2016, 07:02 PM   #31
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Name: Joe
Trailer: 1973 13' Boler
Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD Eben View Post
Ian G: the axel is installed as a trailing arm. This doesn't preclude proper installation, but precludes the reversal issue somewhat.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a brake controller issue. I have been running the power setting at maximum since lock-up was not occurring. It could be a drag ratio problem between the trailer and tow vehicle.

So, I had the controller leveled and at maximum power. Just saying that seems like a hot braking issue. If I roll off the power I'm just wondering what value the brakes will have with minimal to modest engagement.


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I'd be surprised if you can lock them up.
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:08 PM   #32
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Name: Joe
Trailer: 1973 13' Boler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD Eben View Post
Ian G: the axel is installed as a trailing arm. This doesn't preclude proper installation, but precludes the reversal issue somewhat.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a brake controller issue. I have been running the power setting at maximum since lock-up was not occurring. It could be a drag ratio problem between the trailer and tow vehicle.

So, I had the controller leveled and at maximum power. Just saying that seems like a hot braking issue. If I roll off the power I'm just wondering what value the brakes will have with minimal to modest engagement.


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I'd be surprised if you can lock them up.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:34 AM   #33
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Scamp 13
California
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Setting your brake controller all the way up is probably your problem. On my Scamp 13 foot I set the brakes at setting 12 on my prodgy RF controller. My 7 inch brakes will not skid at any setting except on dirt or gravel. I set my brakes to assist my truck brakes not replace them. I get the truck and trailer up to 15 mph let off the gas and truck brakes and coast and manually activate the trailer brakes. I adjust the trailer brake power adjustment on the trailer brake controler to slow the truck and trailer to a reasonable coast to a stop. It takes several tries to get a good working setting. Your brake controler owners manual gives you directions to set the brake setting but it assumes that you have more braking power than our little 7 inch drums can provide. By coasting and manually applying the brake controler you will feel how hard the trailer brakes are comming on and you are adjusting the full braking force the trailer brakes will apply in a panic stop. Adjusting the controller full on you are applying full trailer brakes everytime you just tap the brakes on your tug. Your canceling out the progressive brake control designed into the brake controller.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:00 AM   #34
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Name: Carl
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Quebec
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For the record our popup camper has 7in brakes, and I always set my controller at max gain. The wheels never lock (normal for 7" brakes), the braking is progressive and smooth (Tekonsha Primus IQ controller) and I never had any overheat issue. And my brakes are properly adjusted every year. The popup weights 2500 lbs loaded.

Even with the gain at max, the current sent to the magnets remains proportional to the vehicle's deceleration. The controller doesn't turn into an on/off switch because the gain is set at max.

If it's not the bearings, then it's the brakes, and unless they had just been used and heated up, or unless the controller is faulty and sends a continuous current to the magnets, IMO the brakes may be adjusted too tight and are dragging and causing the heat.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:15 PM   #35
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Name: JD
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Nebraska
Posts: 24
Spindle, Hub and Wheel Temperature

Update: Had the entire axel and brake assembly inspected today. Everything was in perfect working order. Even had the controller checked out.

I also spoke to and engineer at Dexter. He confirmed that hubs are expected to get hot, especially in a intensive braking environment such a city driving or hilly areas. And yes, 7 inch brakes are not likely to lock up with max power set on the controller. Mine never did except on a dirt road.

Conclusion: Although I was not in very brake and intensive environment, I believe I had the controller set too aggressively. I have since backed the controller off to add a moderate amount of braking. It's smoother, more subtle and less grabby. If I do a bunch of braking the hubs will warm up, but nothing I'm concerned about, now. I chalk this all up the a learning moment, which, was the intent of my inaugural trip, so, mission accomplished.

The big take away is "determine where the heat is coming from". If your hubs are hot, turn you controller to zero so the trailer brakes do not engage to determine if it's bearing heat or brake heat.

I want to thank each of you for your time and interest in helping me work through the issue. Most appreciated.


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Old 06-03-2016, 06:34 AM   #36
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Name: Gordon
Trailer: Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
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Good to know things worked out..

Get in the habit of felling the bearings and hubs every time you make a pit-stop and you will both get a better idea of what is normal for differing conditions and be more likely to catch developing problems. I admit that I forget to check sometimes But I do try to check by hand on every stop. The Non-Contact Infrared IR Thermometers are an option also but I think unneeded.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:46 PM   #37
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Name: Shawn
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
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I had the same problem of excessive spindle/drum temperature today when testing out my newly installed brake controller and new wheel bearings. Tomorrow I will try again, but with the gain backed off.
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Old 07-17-2016, 08:08 AM   #38
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Name: Paul
Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, Tacoma 4.0L 4door, SB
Vermont
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Another two cents

I just replaced my 2004 Scamp 19 brakes. The originals were manual adjustment, the new ones, from e-trailer, are automatic. The left side was suspect for some time, not braking as hard as the right one. I reached that conclusion because it was always cooler than the right hand side. The point I am trying to make is that both sides should behave about the same and temperature should feel about the same to touch. Whenever pumping gas, I walk around and feel both out of habit, even with the TPMS sensors I bought recently. Nothing is 100% and one of my sensors failed after only a few weeks of use and was replaced in warranty.

The left electromagnet was worn unevenly, to the point of exposing the winding, which explains the erratic behavior, as it was shorting to the drum. The right one was still OK. While doing it I repacked the bearings and replaced the seals. I had no idea how hard the old seals are to bust out. I took the drums to my friendly mechanic to help me with that, as well as cleaning out the old grease.
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Old 07-17-2016, 11:32 AM   #39
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Name: Shawn
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
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Testing confirmed that it is not the bearings. The driver's side drum (brand new and installed a couple of days ago) is still getting quite hot despite the lowered gain setting. The brakes were adjusted on the driveway prior to testing and had very little drag when I spun the wheels by hand. Brake shoes and magnets have not been replaced and might even by original. The passenger side drum is only slightly warm after testing. My next step is to yank the offending drum off and recheck the shoes and magnet.
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Old 07-17-2016, 01:02 PM   #40
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Name: Darral
Trailer: Scamp Standard 13' 2010
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IF you read this BEFORE you pull the "offending drum", try this...as it worked for me! Jack the "offending" wheel and get it off the ground....again. Sure, it's spinning free. NOW, have the wife or someone apply the brakes WITH the gain turned up as you would be driving with the trailer brakes. Now, have her RELEASE the brake pedal and spin the wheel again. Is it binding?

What happened to me was, my brakes were about 5 yo at the time and the driver's side (road side) brakes hadnt been doing much work. I read up and did everything everyone/reading told me to do and adjusted my brakes. All I know is, the brakes were evidently rusting or what ever...so I had to back that wheel off. BUT, subsequent tests showed that wheel to be only slightly higher in temp (which is what I wanted- for that side to do a little more work and catch up ).

This will ONLY work though IF you were using some brakes during the test. You said you "lowered the gain". If the gain was off and not working at all, the "stuck brake" theory here will not apply. For when I went to zero gain and did my bearing tests, both wheels were within 2-3 deg of each other and only about 95-100 deg. each.

IF you're not using ANY gain, have you checked for "play" in the wheel? There should be a VERY SLIGHT amount to let you know the bearings are not TOO tight. Just some more ideas.....

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Originally Posted by Shawn B. View Post
Testing confirmed that it is not the bearings. The driver's side drum (brand new and installed a couple of days ago) is still getting quite hot despite the lowered gain setting. The brakes were adjusted on the driveway prior to testing and had very little drag when I spun the wheels by hand. Brake shoes and magnets have not been replaced and might even by original. The passenger side drum is only slightly warm after testing. My next step is to yank the offending drum off and recheck the shoes and magnet.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:35 PM   #41
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Name: Shawn
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
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Thank you for the tips. I'd really like to test out the brakes in the driveway, but I don't have enough room. I yanked off the drum a few minutes ago. There was a lot of friction on contact points between the shoes and backing plate. Lubed these up with silicone brake grease and they now move a lot easier. Hope this improvement translates into less heat on the road. I'd really like to replace the whole assembly, but it looks as if it might be pressed onto the axle. No bolts are visible.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:10 PM   #42
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Name: Darral
Trailer: Scamp Standard 13' 2010
Tennessee
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Sounds like probably what was going on with mine on the driver's/road side brakes. When I readjusted that side, I'm sure the shoes were moving into "uncharted territory" and was balking on me.

That's one thing I have to admit...that pulling the drums to inspect bearings/grease also let's you get a first-hand look at the brakes.

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Originally Posted by Shawn B. View Post
Thank you for the tips. I'd really like to test out the brakes in the driveway, but I don't have enough room. I yanked off the drum a few minutes ago. There was a lot of friction on contact points between the shoes and backing plate. Lubed these up with silicone brake grease and they now move a lot easier. Hope this improvement translates into less heat on the road. I'd really like to replace the whole assembly, but it looks as if it might be pressed onto the axle. No bolts are visible.
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