Subaru OB 3.6 pull a Casita 13 ft Dlx ??? - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-15-2013, 01:00 PM   #29
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I pull a 3200lb trailer with a medium size SUV towing cap. 5K, max tongue wgt, 500. I've never felt over gunned. The large majority of FGRV members are not interested in wrapping a wallet full of plastic around a 70K$ duelly and a fiver with three sliders. Most of us want to know if our daily driver will do the job while we raise our kids or try to stretch a retirement budget. Running the numbers and some argumentation on a case by case basis is enlightening. Towing is an XD or HD service for a large majority of passenger vehicle engines, transmissions, suspensions, and brakes. A bit of reserve capability in these areas generally promises longer service life of components and delivers on same.

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Old 09-15-2013, 01:23 PM   #30
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........ The large majority of FGRV members are not interested in wrapping a wallet full of plastic around a 70K$ duelly and a fiver with three sliders. Most of us want to know if our daily driver will do the job while we raise our kids or try to stretch a retirement budget. Running the numbers and some argumentation on a case by case basis is enlightening. ...........jack
Exactly. The crux of the tension is that towing at the lower end of the camper range, we want to get the most out of smaller vehicles that we use as daily drivers. This is a tiny market and the manufacturers in general have no interest in catering to us. It is far easier to slap a low tow rating, a no tow rating, or a no weight distributing hitch rating than to develop a competent towing variant. If ya wanna tow, get a pickup, on which we make a very nice profit, thank you.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by McKenna Lynn View Post
Ok...now I am considering an Escape 15 ft/bath (195 tongue/ 1750 dry) vs. Scamp 13 ft w/ front bath (160 tongue/1600 dry). Outback rated 200 tongue and 3000 dry. Could I do these if I packed light and didn't carry water on the road? I am assuming the Escape is nicer, And pricier. But would be pushing the limit before the Scamp. I am new to this and not an experienced at towing.
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Those are both good choices, but keep in mind, especially if towing is new to you, that a rule of thumb for stability is to have 10% or more of the axle weight on the hitch. That means that, if the Escape gains much weight that you will have to add tongue weight as well.

Also realize that the black holding tank on a scamp is also in front, meaning more tongue weight, and it isn't always that easy to find a place to dump that 8 or so gallons (about 65 lbs) One tip on Scamps, is to move the battery from the tongue to under the left dinette seat, right behind the wheel well, and add a vent to vent it outside. Takes a bunch off the tongue weight without putting it very far towards the back.

I made the mistake many years ago of intentionally loading a freight trailer heavy in the back to reduce tongue weight and, silly me, in trying to stop it on a down grade it started to sway back and forth and the only way to stop that was to accelerate. Fortunately I was only trying to slow down for an off ramp and not the back of a semi, and am still able to be here today.

As a thought, you might get your hitch set-up and a 7 pin connector installed and then find someone/someplace that rents vacation trailers for a few days trial towing. There was a guy in L.A. but his two Scamps were stolen and I don't know if he has them back yet.

As suggested, leave yourself a little headroom on your weight limits, few are those that came in under weight or lost any along the way,
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by McKenna Lynn View Post
After looking at the list, it seems my Outback can't tow practically a thing. And once loaded tongue weight would be well over the max of 200 for the Outback. I was very ignorant buying the Subaru, thinking I was getting a hefty vehicle. I really wanted an Escape 15', Casita, or Scamp, but doesn't look like it will work once loaded with gear. Thanks......
I think you will find your Outback will surprise you as to how well it tows. I have put thousands of miles on my Outback towing & its performed will even in the worst of conditions so have no reservations what so ever in suggesting the Outback would be a great tow for most 15' and under trailers that appear on the Real World Weight thread.

You would have no problems keeping within the 200 lb tongue spec limit set by Subaru for the majority of 15' and smaller models and layouts listed even though as you noted many on the Real World Weight list are well over that on the tongue weight. Keep in mind that the trailers on list were all fully loaded for camping & some folks pack a lot of stuff in their trailers simple because they are towing with much larger vehicles so they don't need to worry about what they put in the trailer or where. I reality is those of use who choose to tow with smaller tow vehicles do have to worry about such things regardless of the make of vehicle.

If you look at what the axle weights of the trailers listed as 15' and under are and consider what 10% of the axle weight would be, you can easily see many go well over that ratio on the tongue which in most cases is not really necessary in order to achieve a good solid tow. I have found due to the design of the Outback that a 10% tongue ratio will give you a nice solid tow. There are many things one can do to reduce tongue weight on most of those trailers in order to get the tongue weight down to 10% or 200 lbs or under. It may simple be that some of those trailers have 2 propane tanks - which is not really necessary or moving a few heavy items from a front hatch to a rear hatch or closer to the axle. Yes your manual says you can go as low as 8% but that may work out ok pulling a boat but I personally have found it doesn't work out so well with the aerodynamics of a travel trailer if you don't want to rely on a anti sway bar to keep the rig from wagging or keep to traveling at 55 mph or less.

Regardless of what tow vehicle you buy each of them have specs set out by the manufacture that some of us prefer to stay within for warranty and safety reasons, its not something unique to a Subaru So as much as some might wish it to be true there is often more to be considered in putting together a safe and enjoyable tow combination than a simple yes or no answer.

I personally don't believe you will be disappointed at all in your Subaru's towing ability and if you do your homework as to what the differences are in regards to weights of the various models and brands of trailers and why, you will find a perfect match that you will be very happy camper with.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Andy B View Post
The following quote from trailer weights in the real world, post #201

"Since my wheel-weighers display weight in 20 pound increments, "Tolerance" is +/- 20 pounds, making the margin of error 40 pounds."

Variability of propane and water weight will occur regardless of the accuracy of the measurement. The point I was trying to make is that if someone is worried about 220 pounds vs 200 pounds then the tongue weight values in the list should be considered very rough estimations.
A basic understanding of metrology would indicate that 10 lbs would be the correct tolerance for an instrument that measures in 20 lb increments.

However either way is close enough for our purposes.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #34
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Lynn... surf the net. You can see the potential of the OB's.

Personally I like the use of a WDH but I would leave that kind of evaluation and setup to the towing professionals.

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&s...fm%3B640%3B480
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:04 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by McKenna Lynn View Post
Ok...now I am considering an Escape 15 ft/bath (195 tongue/ 1750 dry) vs. Scamp 13 ft w/ front bath (160 tongue/1600 dry). Outback rated 200 tongue and 3000 dry. Could I do these if I packed light and didn't carry water on the road? I am assuming the Escape is nicer, And pricier. But would be pushing the limit before the Scamp. I am new to this and not an experienced at towing.
I think you could do it, packing light and right, with either one. You could actually put quite a bit in the upper rear cabinets and it would help offset your LP and stuff, if it came to that. With a bathroom scale and a little experimentation, I'm sure you could arrive at a loading pattern that you could feel confident about.

Let me add that if you happened to get to 210 lb or even 220 on the hitch, that is 10% over the official limit, and there's probably enough leeway in the car's build to take it. Much over 220 lb is where I'd feel uneasy.

BTW, if you like the Escapes, although they don't advertise a 13 any more they can build one on request. But those 15's sure are nice.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:27 PM   #36
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More answers should be as succinct as yours as yours Cam.
Succint is good; correct is better.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:40 PM   #37
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One member that used to participate purchased a Casita 13' with a front bathroom, the front wheels of her Subaru were almost off the ground.
Really?
With the most excessive tongue weight for its model on Frederick's list of 260 pounds, reaction to tongue weight would remove about 100 pounds from the front axle of a car with an empty front axle load of about 2200 pounds... a reduction of about 5% leaving over a ton remaining on the front axle. That's hardly "almost off the ground".

Pushing the rear down with extra load (360 pounds or abuot 25% of the empty rear axle load) tilts the car nose-up and leads to the impression of reduced front axle load.

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I suggest you look at what your Subaru is rated for then look at the Fredrick's lists of weights per the link above. Then make a decision.
Yes, find what your trailer will weigh, and decide appropriately.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:51 PM   #38
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Elentra as a TV??? NOT!

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Quote of the day TG!

......and add salt to the wound. A smaller, lighter, Hyundia Elantra 4cyl, economy sedan has a 3,000lb tow rating. Jesh!
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I don't know which year and model Elantra you have information for, but on the Elantra users site it mentions a 2800 lb limit, but with a maxium of 165 lbs tongue weight. But they didn't make mention of a specific year/model.

And, on this site:
2012*Hyundai*Elantra Touring Specifications

for the Elantra touring it shows a maximum trailer weight of 750 lbs.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:06 PM   #39
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Bob... ref here.... Top 10 Vehicles for Towing
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:06 PM   #40
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A basic understanding of metrology would indicate that 10 lbs would be the correct tolerance for an instrument that measures in 20 lb increments.
A correct understanding would include knowing the difference between display resolution and accuracy.

A typical digital speedometer reads in increments of one kilometre per hour or one mile per hour; however, it is not nearly that accurate, being typically correct to about +/- 3% of the current reading at typical speeds, and even worse at extremely low or high speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
However either way is close enough for our purposes.
Sure... should now understand that all quoted tongue weights are approximate.
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:16 PM   #41
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Elantra Towing ???

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Bob... ref here.... Top 10 Vehicles for Towing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank You for the reference....

This points out the need to always refer to the owners manual for the vehicle at hand for accurate information.

That article is dated 2009 and the 2009 Elantra is rated at 750 w/o brakes and 1500 with brakes in one owners manual and another sez "Do Not Tow".

I can't find anything that supports that 3000 lb claim for any Elantra but, "if it's on the internet, it must be right".

However, if like the one mention of 2800/165, 3000 lbs is of little interest if the hitch weight is limited to, say, 175 lbs.

If we have any Elantra owners out there, let us know what your book sez.

I will postpone my purchase until another source surfaces.

BTW: I often find errors and disagreements in those "Top 10" listings.
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:39 PM   #42
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't find anything that supports that 3000 lb claim for any Elantra but, "if it's on the internet, it must be right".

BTW: I often find errors and disagreements in those "Top 10" listings.
Years ago this was a hot topic and at that time research was done. It was confirmed the 3,000+ tow rating was accurate. Below the Hyundai corporate site verified the number was correct. Unfortunately time has passed us by and the dated info is no longer there but below was the link at the time.

"The info from Hyundai's news release also list Elantra's towing capacity at 3080."
Newsroom - Hyundai Motor America
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