Subaru Outback Towing a 16' Scamp?

[Diane D]

We've got a (1984)16' with shower/toilet that we have been towinq quite nicely all summer with the 2005 Outback. Up and down the Sierra Nevada and CA coast. We do have a brake controller that helps with control. It tows and handles really well.
Diane D

[Parker Buckley]

Is that ball hitch weight or with a WDH ?

The reason I ask is my hitch is 300lb ball hitch and 500lb WDH

My tongue weight is 325lb and trailer with everything but food and cloth's is 2700lb

2009 16' side dinette with front bath.

Bill K

Bill,

That's the simple hitch weight, straight from the manual. I don't know what the options are with a WDH (and whether or not I can put one on the Subaru). When I talked with Scamp, they said I may want to run with some water in the tank to help lighten the hitch weight, but I didn't expect it to be as high as your numbers. Based on your overall weight, 200# hitch weight might be too light to handle well. I wonder if the front bath setup has a higher hitch weight than some other models. I'll be talking with Scamp again today, and I'll try to find out. Naturally, they want to state the lightest weights possible.

Thanks for the email. I'd like to be hearing lighter numbers, but now's the time to find out!

Parker

[Parker Buckley]

We've got a (1984)16' with shower/toilet that we have been towinq quite nicely all summer with the 2005 Outback.

Diane,

Do you happen to know the weight of your Scamp and what the hitch weight might be? Is it the side shower model by chance? Your message is really encouraging. It seems that this is doable within the Subaru limits if we are careful with our choice of setup. We do have a brake controller, so we're ready in that regard.

Thanks,
Parker

[John Mc]

I tow a 16-foot Scamp with an '04 Forester XS, manual transmission, non-turbo. It works very well, even on Colorado mountain passes. I highly recommend manual transmissions for their ability to hold you back on hills without using the brakes. The Scamp is a very light 16'er, however, with no bathroom or fridge and only a couple of gallons of water onboard. Fully but lightly loaded, the trailer scales around 2,000 lbs. It needs at least 160 lbs tongue weight, and prefers a little more. Tongue weight is the limiting factor with these cars. I know of no easy way to increase the loadbearing capacity of Subaru's MacPherson strut rear suspension. My car's butt squats noticeably when hitched up, and the low beams become higher beams.

IMHO, the good news is that you can tow a 16-foot Scamp with your car. But the other, badder news is that you probably shouldn't carry enough water to use that nice bathroom & shower. That wouldn't keep you from running dry and filling up and dumping promptly at campgrounds, but there's less convenience with that.

[Parker Buckley]

IMHO, the good news is that you can tow a 16-foot Scamp with your car. But the other, badder news is that you probably shouldn't carry enough water to use that nice bathroom & shower. That wouldn't keep you from running dry and filling up and dumping promptly at campgrounds, but there's less convenience with that.

John,

That would be our mode of operation. We mostly only need/want the shower for staying in national parks, which we've really come to enjoy. We just spent three weeks in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons, and an on-board shower and a little more space for our stuff would certainly have been welcome. I'm still pondering all this. There are other issues, like finding full-time storage for a larger trailer, indoors if at all possible. Meanwhile, I'm doing some work on our 13', which easily fits in the garage. And that external container attached to our sink drain and the porta-potty are considerably less complicated than gray and black water systems!

Thanks for your comments.
Parker

[Radar1]

I have an 08 Outback with the 2.5 rated at 2700 lbs with brakes. I'm looking at moving up from my pop-up to a fiberglass camper, which I could always pull with my truck, but I find that I prefer using the outback for camping over the truck and for driving around after unhitching. I think a 16 ft camper might be a little more than I want to tow with the Suby since my hitch weight is restricted to 200 lbs, and it seems the 16 ft campers exceed that even at the dry weight. I don't know the Scamp hitch weight, but Casita advertises the hitch weight dry as 215 Standard and 255 Deluxe, before adding options or personal items.
I don't really want to deal with draining tanks and we carry a porta potty so I'm considering buying a 13 ft camper with either a front gaucho or a front dinette, so we could leave the bed made up all the time.
I'm sure your 3.0 would have a smoother power delivery than my 2.5 and be well capable of towing a 16 ft Scamp, but I believe the hitch weight would be higher than what Subaru recommends.

John H

[Nancy]

Hi John H

This has been a very good discussion for me because I am looking for a new second car and want to check out the Subaru Forester with the thought that it could also work as a tow vehicle.

Our bare bones Scamp 13 weighs about 1600 lbs lightly loaded and our hitch weight is near 200 lb. We work at keeping it light weight. I really can't figure out how one could keep the weight down in a 16. Our 13 drags down the Odyssey so that night driving would be bad for the guy coming at us (we don't drive night). Van still handles well so we haven't gone to the WDH.

Subaru only uses a 1 1/4 inch receiver, doesn't it? I would think that also be a problem for 16 foot trailers.

We considered going up to a 16 but after some thought and a visit to the Scamp factory decided we really, really like our little 13 without privacy room.

Keep the thread going.

Nancy

[Roger C H]

We've discussed this before, see if these topics help:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=37879

AND:

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....showtopic=24262

AND:

http://www.rvtravel.com/rvforum/viewtopic.php?t=6146

[Radar1]

Roger,
How do you like that Trillium with your Outback, and what options do you have on it? The Trillium is on my short list since I like the layout with the front dinette. I've pretty much decided on a 13 ft camper so I can continue to tow it with an Outback sized vehicle rather than having to keep a gas guzzler around forever (my truck), and I like the Scamp, Casita, and Trillium for different reasons.
Is the front dinette usable and easy to get in and out of?

John H

[Radar1]

I just looked at another thread on trailer weights, and 2 13 ft campers were weighed at a gathering. The Scamp weighed 1620, and the Casita weighed 2640! Looks like Casitas run heavier than Scamps, but I imagine that was probably the deluxe model which is listed as 1880 dry in the Casita brochure.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...mp;#entry326582

John H

[Radar1]

Subaru only uses a 1 1/4 inch receiver, doesn't it? I would think that also be a problem for 16 foot trailers.

Nancy

Hi Nancy,
The 1 1/4 hitches are normally rated as much as 3500 lbs (Class II), but the Subaru limit is less; 2700 lbs on my Outback, and maybe 2400/2500 on the Forester? I'm not sure if you can order a factory installed hitch for the Subaru from the factory, I believe they are dealer installed. I added my own hitch from etrailer.com and also added an auxilliary transmission cooler. You can purchase either a Class II 1 1/4" or a Class III 2" hitch from etrailer.com but either one is still limited to the Subaru recommendations. I believe the tongue weight would be a problem keeping within the recommendations from Subaru with a 16 ft camper, and a previous post showing trailer weights looks like the Casita 13 may even have a hard time remaining within the Subaru 200 lb tongue weight. The Scamp 13 looked like it was within the limits. The 2'' hitch may be more convenient for carrying bike racks though.

John

[Nancy]

John,

Two posts ago you mentioned a 1620 lb Scamp. That is ours. It is not easy to keep the weight down, and most people we know with 13 foot trailers 2,000 pounds is more usual. We keep things very basic, use our rig for traveling and mostly sleeping. We are not true campers, nor do we need to take electronic stuff. Our toys are a laptop computer, camera, a deck of cards, and books.

Thanks for the info about the 1 1/4 inch receiver. It does look like a toy when I see one.

Nancy

[Roger C H]

Roger,
How do you like that Trillium with your Outback, and what options do you have on it? The Trillium is on my short list since I like the layout with the front dinette. I've pretty much decided on a 13 ft camper so I can continue to tow it with an Outback sized vehicle rather than having to keep a gas guzzler around forever (my truck), and I like the Scamp, Casita, and Trillium for different reasons.
Is the front dinette usable and easy to get in and out of?

John H

The Outback pulls the Trillium well. Steep hills on less than expressway grades do call for a lower gear and worse mileage. We have the front dinette and just for the two of us it is great! We purchased a little camp stool for the second person to sit in front of the table.

The kitchen side is difficult to get into. But I do notice that the latest Trilliums (Trilliumrv.com) have the dinette table offset. I may try that, but we use the left dinette seating area for food storage.

I don't see any sense of going to a 2" receiver since Class I is all the Subaru can pull anyway.

http://www.bradstrailer.com/hitch_information.htm

Plus bigger size means more weight.

There is a lot of good information on the internet:

http://autos.aol.com/article/towing-tips

Here is a whole series of articles on towing:

http://trucks.about.com/od/autobuyin...ing_trucks.htm

[Roger C H]

I need to clarify my statement on Subaru towing capacity. Our 2000 Outback is rated at 2000# with trailer brakes and 1000# without. Looking on the internet, I found the following:

2007 Subaru
B9 TRIBECA B9 TRIBECA 5-PASSENGER | B9 TRIBECA 7-PASSENGER
• 3,500 lbs. towing capacity (with accessory trailer towing kit)
3.0R L.L.BEAN® EDITION SEDAN and WAGON
• 3,000 lbs. towing capacity
OUTBACK 2.5i BASIC WAGON | 2.5i WAGON | 2.5i LIMITED SEDAN and WAGON
• 2,700 lbs. towing capacity\
FORESTER 2.5 X | SPORTS 2.5X7 | 2.5X L.L.BEAN® EDITION
• 2,400 lbs. towing capacity

Above gleaned from: https://www.subaru.com/content/downloads/pd...s/2007_full.pdf

You can see that it can get confusing. The best thing to do is check your owner's manual.

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">Here is an issue I never saw addressed:
</span>
WARNING: Never tow a trailer when the temporary spare tire is used. The temporary spare tire is not designed to sustain the towing load.

https://www.subaru.com/my-subaru/tired-tires.html

[Radar1]

I was curious if the tow limit for the 2010 Outback with CVT would be lower than my 08 auto transmission, but looking at the 2010 owners manual, the 4 cyl with MT or CVT is still rated to tow 2700 lbs with brakes. 1000 without brakes, and for the automatics, "When towing a trailer on a long uphill grade continuously for over 5 miles (8 km) with an outside temperature of 104F (40C) or above, 1350 (1500 for 6 cylinder)".
I have brakes on my pop-up and plan to get them on my 13 ft Scamp/Casita/Trillium (still in the decision making stage) when I order it.
Subaru also recommends a tongue load of 8-11 % and still has the 200 lb limit, even for the 6. Doing the math, it's impossible to reach 2700 or 3000 and keep the tongue weight down to 200 even with just an 8% tongue load, and Subaru mentions that in the manual. So, to keep it down to 200, you can't haul more than 2500 lbs.

John

[Booker B.]

John, you would do a dis-service to all of us Subaru/Trillium owners if you did not settle on a Trillium

[Ken in SW VA]

We just ordered a '13 Scamp with a toilet, shower and A/C. The salesman said FWIW that the '16 would not be his recommendation, but that lots of folks are towing loaded 13's with a Subie

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Booker B.

John, you would do a dis-service to all of us Subaru/Trillium owners if you did not settle on a Trillium

Sorry, I like the Trillium, but found a great deal on an 05 Scamp 16 last year after I attended the Scamp Camp and couldn't pass it up (especially since it was the only one still available when I called)
I've had that Scamp all over the place, from TX to FL to PA and VA, and next week will add IN, OH, MI, Canada, and NY to it's resume.

John

[Ken in SW VA]

Hi, are you towing it with your Subie or your other vehicle?

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Ken in SW VA

Hi, are you towing it with your Subie or your other vehicle?

I tow with my truck about half the time, and the Subaru the other half. The Subaru max tongue weight allowed is only 200 lbs, so if I know I need to carry a lot of weight, or carry both LP tanks on a long trip then I use the truck.
As long as I can keep the weight low enough to allow about a 200 lb tongue weight, I'm fine with the Subaru.
The 13 Scamp should be easier to keep at the 200 lb tongue weight, and that was what I originally planned to get, but a 16 deal became available. Initially I was concerned about towing the 16 with my Outback, but after a trial trip and redistributing some weight to get the tongue weight down, it worked better than I had expected. It's easier to transport my kayaks on the Subaru too.