Sway bar

[Helen]

Just a slight drift off the sway bar topic....

My 1981 Trillium 5500 arrived with a pretty formidible looking and VERY heay Reese 'weight distributing hitch that the original owner purchased in 1981. The owner I bought it from said I'd probably be just fine with the standard towing equipment that's on my Honda Pilot... the basic 2" ball and factory mount. In fact, the owner's manual for the Honda says 'do not use weight distributing hitches'. Use sway bars ONLY if the trailer sways.

I'm a newby at pulling a camper trailer but pulled plenty of boats/utility trailers with no sway issues. So far, knock on wood, the Trill hasn't done any of that swaying that I have nightmares about. This includes being passed by various trucks, gusty winds, etc. I do feel big wind gusts but it hasn't caused sway. Cute little thing just follows right along behind me! Question.... should I be concerned about trying to use the hitch that came with the trailer or stick with the Honda equipment. Helen

[Frederick L. Simson]

In fact, the owner's manual for the Honda says 'do not use weight distributing hitches'. Use sway bars ONLY if the trailer sways.

Cute little thing just follows right along behind me! Question.... [b]should I be concerned about trying to use the hitch that came with the trailer or stick with the Honda equipment. Helen

If it is behaving itself with the plain Honda hitch, then I would council that Occam's Razor applies.

Originally posted by 'Occam's Razor'
[b]This is often paraphrased as "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

[Kurt & Ann K.]

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the previous owner of our Casita. It came to us with both a weight distribution hitch and a sway control device. A blow-out occurred on the left tire of the Casita during a trip to Texas. The only odd sensation was the tell-tale pop and noticing the belly band of the trailer was no longer parallel to the top of the truck tailgate. No tugging, swaying or out-of-control effect on the trailer or tug. We pulled to the side of the road, installed the spare and were back on the road in less than 10 minutes. Essentially a non-event! we credit the 2 additional devices for the control. They may only be effective in the case of an emergency but that is sufficient reason (IMHE) to take advantage of them.
I'm a firm believer in safety devices. It's kind of like seat belts, why not utilize what is available if your welfare may be affected? Even more so when the welfare of a loved one may be involved!!
We've all seen the remnants of RV's at the side of the road. If I can prevent that type of ugly scenario from including us, I will.

You pays your nickel (or not)and you takes your chances.....
Kurt & Ann K.

[Joe MacDonald]

I have a 5500 that also came with a huge WDH.
I gave it to a friend for his flat deck, and went out and bought a standard anti-sway bar.
Works great.
No sway at all, even with a lot of transports on the highway
Joe

[GeorgeR]

While getting ready for the 21RB Bigfoot I equipped my truck with reasonably new Reese hitch model which combines the weight distribution with sway control in the similar way as Equalizer Hitch; EQUALIZER. Reese added replaceable friction pads which solves Equalizer's issues of screeching noise and lack of stable steel on steel friction during rain. Time will tell if I like it, REESE_PRO

George.

I like to correct the manufacturer of the product, it is not Reese but Draw-Tite, see http://www.draw-tite.com/fitguides/details...49578&dlr=0

Thank you Brian.

[Pete Dumbleton]

I had a tire pop in Colorado, at about 40-45 miles per hour and hardly realized it (belly band was indeed slanted in the mirror). I didn't have either WDH or anti-sway.

Personally, I believe the Reese dual-cam to be superior to the friction WDHs because it is exerting mild force to put the trailer back in line with the tow vehicle, however I haven't actually used any of them, just a plain old WDH with no anti-sway on my old Jayco 16'.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I often, well not really often, wondered if a friction anti-sway device causes more problems than it fixes. It seems to me that one a single axle trailer they would cause problems and the nature of a dual axle would dampen the tendency to sway. Dual axle the scrubbing action will reduce the tendency for the trailer to move around.
Single axle, go around a corner the trailer doesn't want to follow. The pressure from the anti-sway would cause scrubbing of the tires. Hence increased tire wear. Probably not too much of a problem since tires are replaced before the tread wears out. However any loss of traction of the trailer tires would make the trailer act like a big ole weight on the end of pendulum and drag the read of TV where you don't want it to go.

I know a lot of people swear by them, but they scare me.

[GeorgeR]

Personally, I believe the Reese dual-cam to be superior to the friction WDHs because it is exerting mild force to put the trailer back in line with the tow vehicle

I agree that dual-cam Reese could perform better. A frictional dumping of sway oscillation will work in a similar way as shock absorbers work on the car. There are advantages of both systems. I went for lower complexity and expediency in attaching the trailer to the truck; (attach the trailer to the ball and latch, lift (electric tongue jack), insert friction spring bars, lower the hitch, done). I hope I made a right decision, if not; life is too short to worry about it.

George.

[Roger H]

Friction sway control devices have a couple of minor advantages over the Reese Dual Cam hitch. First, they can be used on trailers that the frame is too fragile to use a weight distributing hitch with. Second, they're very simple, and effective if set up and operated properly according to the instructions. A friction sway control device should only be used after the trailer is properly balanced and exhibits no sway tendencies without sway control. Any mechanical sway control applied to a trailer that sways without first determining and correcting the cause of the sway is a dangerous course of action. A mechanical sway control applied to mask sway tendencies will only work until the forces causing a sway event overcome it. At that point, you'll likely crash.

A Reese Dual Cam is one of the most effective weight equalizing/sway control hitch setups available. I've used them exclusively since 1987. They're heavy, and involve several semi-permanent pieces to be installed on the trailer, but they work and work well.

Roger

[Helen]

Great discussion, it really helps to hear all your views and experiences. Anyone know why Honda would say no 'WDH' for the Pilot?

[Roger H]

Great discussion, it really helps to hear all your views and experiences. Anyone know why Honda would say no 'WDH' for the Pilot?

Hi Helen. The Pilot, like the Ridgeline, is a uni-body vehicle. Unibody vehicles don't have a conventional ladder frame, but use sheetmetal structure that is specifically designed to accept forces in specific vectors... in this case the body is designed to support a downward force of x pounds, and a towing force of x pounds. It is not designed to take forces in the "up" vector that a WDH would apply at the hitch. Applying that force "up" could deform, or worse, rip out the hitch assembly should it be loaded to the maximum... hence the "no WDH". I just looked at the Ridgeline last weekend just for fun. I'm staying with my Tundra.

Roger

[Helen]

Roger, thanks so much for the information. I'm really glad I read the manual before trying out the WDH! When I hooked up the Trill for the first time the owner checked out how level the trailer frame was on the hitch and said 'Looks like you won't need the WDH.' Now I know what he was talking about. I'm feeling ok with the weight too. The recommended top tow weight for the trailer is 3500lbs. Last weekend I loaded the trailer with everything I thought I might need and went to a public scale.... 2380lbs. I'm going to try to keep under that weight as much as possible. Thanks again, Helen

[Pete Dumbleton]

I want to add a few thoughts for folks who may be getting confused here.

First, Unibody (no ladder framework under vehicle) construction CAN be designed for strong attachment places (aka hard-points) for things like a WDH, but if they haven't been, a WDH could be a disaster because they exert extreme forces on the vehicle structure. Likewise, BTW, for the trailer itself -- Many small pop-up tent trailers come with a warning to NOT use a WDH.

Second, the above discussions of sway controls are addressing three basic types, which I've listed in order of MY personal preference - YMMV:

1. Dual Cam on WDH where cams are forced into one position and try to get back.

2. WDH with integral friction where points slide and to some extent need to be forced back.

3. Friction anti-sway bar where components slide and must be forced back.



There are also at least two other anti-sway hitches that function in a different manner, the Henseley and Pull-Rite, where the hitch ball is effectively transferred to very close to the TV rear axle and functions like a 5W hitch does (effect is that of reducing TV overhand and also extending TT tongue). These hitches are $$$ and HEAVY, intended for BulgeMobile TTs and unfortunately not very applicable to our smaller TVs and TTs.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Anyone know why Honda would say no 'WDH' for the Pilot?

I find it odd that they would say no WDH for the Pilot, yet insist on one for the Odyssey.

Originally posted by ODYSSEY 2003 Owner's Manual
[b]Towing Equipment and Accessories
[b]Weight Distributing Hitch
If the total trailer weight is more than 1,850 Lbs (840 Kg), you must also use a weight-distributing hitch. This device transfers weight from the vehicle's rear wheels to the front wheels, and to the trailer's wheels. Carefully follow the hitch maker's instructions for proper installation and adjustment.
Sway Control
If the total trailer weight exceeds 2,000 Lbs (900 Kg), you should install a sway control device to minimize swaying that can occur in crosswinds and in normal and emergency driving maneuvers. Your trailer maker can tell you what kind of sway control you need and how to install it.
Trailer Brakes
Honda recommends that any trailer having a total weight of 1,000 Lbs (450 Kg) or more be equipped with its own electric or surge-type brakes.
Total trailer weight:
The maximum weight you can tow depends on several factors. See chart below for limits for your towing situation. Towing a load that is too heavy can seriously affect your handling and performance.
Tongue Load:
The weight that the tongue of a fully loaded trailer puts on the hitch should be approximately 10 percent of the trailer weight. Too little tongue load can make the trailer unstable and cause it to sway. Too much tongue load reduces front-tire traction and steering control.
Maximum Total Trailer Weight:
Number of Occupants-----------------------------------Equipped with transmission cooler
Including Driver*-----------------------------------------and power steering fluid cooler
-----2-------------------------------------------------------------3,500 Lbs (1,580 Kg)
-----3-------------------------------------------------------------3,350 Lbs (1,520 Kg)
-----4-------------------------------------------------------------3,200 Lbs (1,450 Kg)
-----5-------------------------------------------------------------3,050 Lbs (1,380 Kg)
-----6-------------------------------------------------------------2,900 Lbs (1,310 Kg)
-----7---------------------------------------------------------------650 Lbs (295 Kg)**
*Based on 150 Lbs (70 Kg) per occupant
**Weight limited to avoid exceeding rear GAWR
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle, all occupants, all cargo, and the tongue load is:
5,665 Lbs (2,570 Kg)
Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR)
The maximum allowable weights on the vehicle axles are:
2,833 Lbs (1,285 Kg) on the front axle, and
2,845 Lbs (1,290 Kg) on the rear axle.
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle and trailer is:
8,265 Lbs (3,750 Kg) with the proper hitch and fluid coolers.

[Helen]

Interesting to compare the two 2003 Honda vehicles Frederick...

I did discover the original owner of the 1981 Trillium 5500 bought the Reese WDH to tow with their 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis! They were great at saving manuals and making notes in them. The second owner forwarded it all to me... I feel so fortunate to have a rich history with my Trill.

Now, to the Honda Pilot vs the Odyssey with sway WDH needs. Not being a car person I'm not sure how to compare the two. Are they actually the same car with a different chassis? Is the Odyssey a 4-wheel drive? Here's what the 2003 Pilot manual say in comparison with the 2003 Odyssey:

Towing Equipment and Accessories
Weight Distributing Hitch
Odyssey:
If the total trailer weight is more than 1,850 Lbs (840 Kg), you must also use a weight-distributing hitch. This device transfers weight from the vehicle's rear wheels to the front wheels, and to the trailer's wheels. Carefully follow the hitch maker's instructions for proper installation and adjustment.
Pilot:
A wieght distributing hitch is not recommended for use with your Pilot as an improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch may reduce handling stability and braking performance. (that's me - I'd be afraid I'd get it wrong. I'm not going to use the old Reese hitch on the Pilot)

Sway Control
Odyssey:
If the total trailer weight exceeds 2,000 Lbs (900 Kg), you should install a sway control device to minimize swaying that can occur in crosswinds and in normal and emergency driving maneuvers. Your trailer maker can tell you what kind of sway control you need and how to install it.
Pilot:
This device is recommended if your trailer tends to sway. Your trailer maker can tell you what kind of sway control you need and how to install it. (So far, the Trill hasn't been swaying...leave well enough alone? I'm now thinking of purchasing sway bars, I'll have to do some more research)


Trailer Brakes
Odyssey:
Honda recommends that any trailer having a total weight of 1,000 Lbs (450 Kg) or more be equipped with its own electric or surge-type brakes.
Pilot:
Honda requires that any trailer with a total trailer weight of 1000lbs or more have its own brakes. (It goes into detail about the difference between surge and electric brakes. The Trill's got brakes and I've got a unit installed in the Pilot)

Total trailer weight:
Both Vehicles:
The maximum weight you can tow depends on several factors. See chart below for limits for your towing situation. Towing a load that is too heavy can seriously affect your handling and performance.

Tongue Load:
Odyssey:
The weight that the tongue of a fully loaded trailer puts on the hitch should be approximately 10 percent of the trailer weight. Too little tongue load can make the trailer unstable and cause it to sway. Too much tongue load reduces front-tire traction and steering control.
Pilot:
The weight that the tondue of a fully loaded trailer puts on the hitch chould be 8 to 15 percent of total trailer weight for trailers.


Maximum Total Trailer Weight: Odyssey Pilot
Number of Occupants-----------------------------------Equipped with transmission cooler
Including Driver*-----------------------------------------and power steering fluid cooler.......................same
-----2-------------------------------------------------------------3,500 Lbs (1,580 Kg).............................same
-----3-------------------------------------------------------------3,350 Lbs (1,520 Kg).............................3,500 Lbs
-----4-------------------------------------------------------------3,200 Lbs (1,450 Kg).............................3,300
-----5-------------------------------------------------------------3,050 Lbs (1,380 Kg).............................3,100
-----6-------------------------------------------------------------2,900 Lbs (1,310 Kg).............................2,700
-----7---------------------------------------------------------------650 Lbs (295 Kg)**.............................1,200
*Based on 150 Lbs (70 Kg) per occupant
**Weight limited to avoid exceeding rear GAWR

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle, all occupants, all cargo, and the tongue load is:
Odyssey: 5,665 Lbs (2,570 Kg) Pilot: 5,950

Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR)
The maximum allowable weights on the vehicle axles are:
Odyssey 2,833 Lbs (1,285 Kg) on the front axle, Pilot 2,865 and
Odyssey 2,845 Lbs (1,290 Kg) Pilot 3,155 on the rear axle.

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle and trailer is:
Odyssey 8,265 Lbs (3,750 Kg) with the proper hitch and fluid coolers.
Pilot 9,700 Lbs

[Patrick M.]

Great discussion, it really helps to hear all your views and experiences. Anyone know why Honda would say no 'WDH' for the Pilot?

Probably because the suspension is designed to support the weight of a heavy hitch. Honda requires a WDH with my Odyssey, but I would love to have a vehicle that didn't need it (and still have the room and MPG of the Odyssey!) as it's a lot of heavy metal.

[Per Walthinsen]

Because of the usually deserted but open for business weigh stations here in Oregon I'm able to repeatedly check loads on the axles and keep a fairly tight grip on what's happening. I have opted for no WDH and no sway control but am open to be convinced otherwise.

The allowable tongue weight limit on the Odyssey is 350 lbs. With our trailer checking out at about 2900 lbs (axle weight only) fully decked out the tongue weight is 275 lbs on average. Somewhat less than 10%.

My thinking is that if the allowable tongue weight is not exceeded there may not be the need for WDH. In addition, since our Ody is seldom used to its full people-moving capacity I have temporarily removed the rear bench seat, effectively adding about 100 lbs to the allowable load on the rear axle from tongue weight. The tongue load also effectively removes 99 lbs from the load on the front axle, a trade-off which does not seem excessive to me. I have not encountered a situation yet where the slightly lowered load on the front wheels resulted in unusual lack of traction.

There seem to be some complaints of hitch dragging on the Siennas, but I found this to be probably less of a problem on the Ody. The solution was rear airbags (with an on-board compressor for convenience), and that has worked out extremely satisfactorily. Aside from the clear seat-of-the-pants feeling of greatly improved control they also help keep the hitch further off the ground and the headlights well aimed.

If the tongue weight inched up toward the allowable limit I would consider WDH, but I'm OK without for the time being. As for sway control: we have towed in many kinds of conditions and have yet to encounter any problems (the usual caveats here). I do think that the geometry, weight distribution, center of gravity, and balance of the particular trailer (and the TV wheelbase) has a great deal to do with what happens when big truck pass, strong sidewinds come on and off, etc. Our particular trailer seems not to notice, don't ask me to pin down the exact cause(s). General tracking has been exemplary. I think it is possible to get somewhat of a feel for how the combination would behave under emergency situations without actually encountering them, but that is partially a guess.

[Roger H]

I have opted for no WDH and no sway control but am open to be convinced otherwise.

Per, I don't think you need to be "convinced" one way or the other. Whether or not you "need" a WDH/sway control or combination hitch depends entirely on the balance and weight of your specific combination of trailer and tow vehicle.

I used a Reese Dual Cam with my '94 Toyota 4WD extended cab compact truck because even though it was rated for 3500 lbs, the Burro's tongue weight deflected the rear end enough to affect the headlights, and caused the steering to be vague. The trailer never exhibited anything but proper manners with or without the Dual Cam, but the handling with it was remarkable. I towed my Bigfoot 17' behind my 6cyl 4WD access cab Tundra both with and without the WDH, and frankly didn't notice much difference. I did use a friction sway control device with the BF 17 though, although it never exhibited anything but perfect manners either.

Some combinations benefit from a WDH; some wouldn't. There's no one-size-fits-all solution here.

Roger

[Frederick L. Simson]

I'm not sure how to compare the two. Are they actually the same car with a different chassis? [b]Is the Odyssey a 4-wheel drive?

The Odyssey is a front-wheel drive minivan...

Originally posted by Edmunds.com
[b]All Pilots sold from 2003-'05 were all-wheel drive

The Pilot is an SUV with a shorter wheelbase, and higher ground clearance.

[Helen]

Odyssey vs Pilot (sway bar & WDH)... now I understand why there were different recommendations for a weight distributing hitch in the manuals.

If you'd asked me last year (before Trillium) about all of this I would have resoundly said 'huh? Who cares!' Funny how the little details raise in importantance when you get your first egg! Helen