Sway bar and electric brakes needed on 13’ Scamp?

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Hopper

I am getting a lot of mixed feed back on my car & Scamp...It is interesting to me that there appears to be so many mixed opinions.

Not really. You have what your car is rated for (nothing) and then you have what some people do. I saw a guy pulling a utility trailer with a washing machine on it behind his motorcycle. Was this a good idea? Of course not.

People hear what they want to hear, "hey Joe does it", so they think that is permission to do it. If they go this route, they will be deciding that despite their car having zero tow rating. The decision is theirs as are any consequences.

I am reminded of the old joke, the last three words in a redneck's life: "Bubba, watch this!!"


People are willingly swallowing Tide Pods right now. Would I do it? Heck no. And would I tow a trailer behind a car not rated to tow anything? No. Myself, I prefer to have a safety margin on tow vehicle, not a deficit.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Most effective? Perhaps.. but surly not the BEST way. Too much trailer braking at highway speed can be worse than a little sway. IHMO the best way for all but the most experienced drivers to control sway is to let up on the gas pedal while keeping both hands on the wheel. (Do not use tug brakes of course). Its the best method in part because it takes some practice and a light touch on the manual trailer brake control to effectively use it to control unexpected sway, and it has to be done quickly while the driver is also dealing with many other things going on. Computerized sway control that automatically applies trailer brakes without driver intervention is the exception.

My concern is that a driver who has never used or practiced using the trailer brakes to control sway may apply to much braking and make a bad situation quickly worse, when all they needed to do was slow down a little. If one thinks that can effectively use the trailer brakes to control sway then they probably think so because they have the experience, so this does not apply to them. I have tried using the trailer brakes alone and it will not be the thing I do when things first start to feel unstable.

You raise several good points, and that's one reason I mentioned it last in the list. I agree that the average driver (and I include myself in that group) may not have the muscle memory to instinctively apply the trailer brakes appropriately in a panic situation.

It is perhaps the least among many reasons to install trailer brakes, but it is a reason.

To be clear, when I say "sway," I am not talking about the small "tail-wagging" movements that sometimes happen when a tour bus passes at 75 mph. Assuming a stable towing set-up, they will naturally subside with a steady hand on the controls (assisted by the sway bar if you have one). I am talking about larger oscillations that continue or increase in intensity. I have not experienced that and hope never to, but if it does happen, applying the trailer brakes is the best option to regain control. Unfortunately, it's not something you can easily practice.

Perhaps I should have said, "trailer brakes can be a last resort way to regain control in an emergency sway situation."

[k0wtz]

bill can you imagine putting chains on a motorcycle I didn't use them if that trailer come undone I didn't want to be attached to the trailer!!


bob

[k0wtz]

i find it interesting our 13f scamper is not equipped with brakes just the way it came from the factory. lets see a 95 no telling where its been or how many miles up and down mountains it has on it!


its till rolling along!!!


bob

[Raspy]

As Jon said, small tail wagging movement is not the issue. Some trailers will do that more or less constantly or when a big truck passes.

The problem is when it gets out of control and increases by itself. I've had this happen and it will definitely get your attention and likely take you right off the road and into a crash. My Dad had it happen too. He rolled his truck and trailer on the way home from buying it, on a down slope with no trailer brakes. The only hope to get out of trouble is to get rid of speed fast, but braking only with the TV makes the problem worse, until a lower speed is reached and it stops the oscillation, or you crash.

Everyone with a brake controller should be aware of how to apply the trailer brakes manually. The second thing, and this is also what I do, is to set up the brake controller to make the trailer brakes slightly more aggressive that the TV brakes. Not all controllers allow this. Then, when you let off the throttle, in an uncontrolled sway, and lightly step on the brakes, the trailer begins to pull back. This will stop the sway or buy you enough time to get slowed down to where the sway stops.

On a downgrade, where sway is more likely, simply letting off the throttle does not slow you down. Only applying the TV brakes, aggravates the problem. You are likely going faster and the trailer is pushing the TV. Getting rid of speed takes longer. With a slightly more aggressive trailer brake setting, you can safely get rid of speed before the sway starts, or get it under control easier if it does. In a severe case, on a strraight road, simply reach down and apply the trailer brakes manually. Practice this move and know how to do it. It's been easy on every controller I've had. It's not good enough to simply say it's too hard to remember how to do it.

The keys to success are, 1. Getting rid of speed, and 2. Making the trailer pull back instead of pushing on the TV.

If your trailer has a tendency to do a lot of minor tail wagging and it takes several oscillations to settle down after a truck passes, it's probably less stable than it could be. A friction type, telescoping sway controller is probably a good investment. And don't become careless with your trailer weight distribution.

[thrifty bill]

Yes major sway downhill with no adequate way to slow down WILL win you over on trailer brakes. Apply the tow vehicle brakes in that situation (with no trailer brakes) and there is a good chance the trailer will swing wide and can eventually jackknife. At that point you will crash. Trailer brakes are just that extra weapon in an emergency situation.

Some people come down steep hills too fast forgetting they have a trailer behind them. Then they slam their TV brakes and all heck brakes loose. Ever wonder why they have those emergency runaway truck pullouts?

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raspy

....
The problem is when it gets out of control and increases by itself. I've had this happen and it will definitely get your attention and likely take you right off the road and into a crash. ...

Very well said and so true. I was not thinking of downgrades when I made my previous reply but you are right, a little sway on more or less level ground from too much speed, a gust of wind, etc. is very different from a downgrade where the trailer is pushing the tug.

Another thing to think about is brake fade from overuse. When you push the brakes too hard and they overheat, they stop working so well. Its important to never get to that point. Downshift, go slow and dont over tax the brakes on those big down hill runs.

I once was a 20 year old, inexperienced in the finer points of vehicle operation, coming down off the Rockies in a rented motor-home. I didn't know to downshift, and used only the brakes.. this is the result, three days in a town that was all of two blocks long. It could have been worse.

[John in Michigan]

Bingo! Exactly my concern in the other thread. A recipe for disaster. The OP who apparently lives in Indiana indicated she was planning a vacation to a Utah national park.

Might be able to avoid towing problems in the Midwest, but much more risky scenarios arise driving through the Rocky Mountains (and some Eastern mountains as well).

[thrifty bill]

There are many videos of trailers swaying out of control and crashing on youtube.

On this one, note all the crap hanging off the back end of this trailer! You have to wonder about not enough tongue weight. Also note the trailer eventually caused the car to roll as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siVH_cr5ZnE

[Raspy]

At least it was nice listening to George Benson on the truck's sound system.

[Jon in AZ]

I don't know if there are really that many videos out there of sway accidents, as the same few seem to surface over and over.

Armchair quarterbacking is popular. In this case speed and perhaps improper weight distribution appear to be factors, but there could be others- gust of wind, driver distraction or fatigue leading to a steering over-correction... Nothing is known about what safety equipment was used and how. More questions than answers.

Nevertheless, we can all use an occasional reality check that towing is risky, and everything we can do to tilt the scale in the direction of safety is good.

[k0wtz]

Mention has been made of speed and how to control speed I don't care what you have on your rig if you go down a steep hill or mountain and you have your tug in o/d you are a disaster waiting to happen. don't think your brakes are going to hold you back!

our last trip to az I watched a semi driver smoke his brakes because instead of down shifting and using his transmission to control his speed he chose to use his brakes.

we watched him have to pull over needing a service call for his brakes almost on fire I have seen a semi-trailer burn up with this stuff. anyway we went merrily down the mountain in a lower gear pulling our 13f trailer with no brakes no problems!

bob

[thrifty bill]

I’ve seen the aftermath of several trailer related crashes but never when they were happening.

[k0wtz]

I saw a truck take a corner too fast once and his trailer tipped over very scary turned the truck over too!

following the truck and watching his trailer burn down while he was driving was the most scary!!

bob