Sway Bars and Electric brakes

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Raspy

I hope people don't install sway bars simply to "mask" a real problem. Not sure what the "much worse" problem is that they can cause. But I will admit that I add air to my tires to mask a flat tire and that air can cause a much worse situation if I add too much.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by gordon2

...So if one did not have a sway control device and ended up in a sway situation and accident that resulted in injury or property damage to someone else, one could be held civilly liable.
....
I only suggest you review your owner's manual and either equip your tug as it says, or accept the potential liability.

Originally Posted by Raspy

These are the two statements I was referring too. Not anything from the manufacturers. There is no mention here of concern about pain and suffering that one might cause, just the possible legal liability in case there is. It's advice on how to avoid liability, but not on how to avoid damage to others. It reflects the type of society we live in today and it bothers me.

Wow you have really extrapolated and assumed a great deal here. An entire social commentary from a limited remark about one many of the pros and cons of using a sway control device. It should go without saying that being safe on the road is the primary objective when deciding on how to equip your rig – do I really need to state that? Please do not assume the legal liability is my sole argument. Yes, it was the thrust of my comment but my comment was limited, and by the way, did also talk about the need (or lack thereof) for such a device based on physics.

If I had said anything remotely similar to the effect that legal liability was the primary concern then I would accept your criticism. But I did not, and do not.

[Raspy]

Gordon,

I'm glad you clarified your thoughts on this. I was only responding to your two comments that only mentioned legal liability as the problem. To assume you really meant anything else would be to read more into your comment than what was written. That would be assuming.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Gordon,

I'm glad you clarified your thoughts on this. I was only responding to your two comments that only mentioned legal liability as the problem. To assume you really meant anything else would be to read more into your comment than what was written. That would be assuming.

Thanks for understanding me my friend.

PS, I share your concern over society. But back on topic.. dare I ask about a break-away switch in addition to trailer brakes? Perhaps something else for the OP to consider.

[Raspy]

The breakaway switch is a nice safety feature, I guess. I've never had a problem with a trailer disconnecting and am very careful with the entire hitch setup (famous last words). By the time you consider a quality hitch and coupler, and robust safety chains, it seems unlikely to be needed. I'm guilty of letting the emergency battery go completely dead on industrial trailers.

As an example, one time, in the winter, I thought my brakes had frozen from towing on a wet highway and sitting through a cold night. Thought I'd let the trailer sit there until the weather warmed up. Turned out, a month later, it was the emergency switch that had been activated and killed the battery. But the trailer never rolled away.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raspy

The breakaway switch is a nice safety feature, I guess. ...
As an example,...Turned out, ... it was the emergency switch that had been activated and killed the battery. But the trailer never rolled away.

You mean it did not do THIS? (warning.. video with bad language - the "S" word)
https://www.facebook.com/missstephan...810246933/?t=3

[jbrish]

Slightly off topic, my Ridgeline's manual actually says to use a sway control bar, but definitely not recommended to use a weight distribution hitch. I found that surprising. Electric brakes for anything over 1000 lbs too.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by gordon2

You mean it did not do THIS? (warning.. video with bad language - the "S" word)
https://www.facebook.com/missstephan...810246933/?t=3

Yikes! Did you hear the crash at the end? Ouch!

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by jbrish

Slightly off topic, my Ridgeline's manual actually says to use a sway control bar, but definitely not recommended to use a weight distribution hitch. I found that surprising. Electric brakes for anything over 1000 lbs too.

Not sure how the Ridgeline is built, but I think it's a unibody design based on the Pilot. There may not be any structure strong enough at the back end to handle the loads applied by a WDH. A very nice vehicle designed for only light duty towing.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by jbrish

Slightly off topic, my Ridgeline's manual actually says to use a sway control bar, but definitely not recommended to use a weight distribution hitch. I found that surprising. Electric brakes for anything over 1000 lbs too.

I'm curious exactly what your manual says about WDH. This is a direct quote from my 2011 Pilot manual:
"A weight distributing hitch is not recommended for use with your vehicle, as an improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance."

"Not recommended" is not the same as "should not be used." The language appears deliberately ambiguous and sounds very much like they are merely covering their liability against improper use of a WDH. Nothing is said about any problem with a properly rated and adjusted set-up.

Lots of discussion/debate in old threads on the use of WDH with modern unibody vehicles. Some manufacturers encourage its use (Chrysler, for example).

[redbarron55]

The Town & Country OEM hitch manual calls for use of a WDH over 1800 lbs .
At 2900 lbs I use a Reese mini 350 with built in sway control.
It seems that light duty WDHs are more expensive and harder to find than heavy duty units.
Too heavy a spring set is a bad thing .
The WDH helps the wheel spin problem when starting especially on gravel and uphill.

[jbrish]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I'm curious exactly what your manual says about WDH. This is a direct quote from my 2011 Pilot manual:
"A weight distributing hitch is not recommended for use with your vehicle, as an improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance."

"Not recommended" is not the same as "should not be used." The language appears deliberately ambiguous and sounds very much like they are merely covering their liability against improper use of a WDH. Nothing is said about any problem with a properly rated and adjusted set-up.

Lots of discussion/debate in old threads on the use of WDH with modern unibody vehicles. Some manufacturers encourage its use (Chrysler, for example).

Sorry that was my wording and understanding, mine says exactly the same thing as yours. I guess I didn't see it as something to interpret. Not recommended is enough for me to avoid a WDH.

[Glenn Baglo]

I had this same issue with the Toyota RAV4 manual. It says Toyota doesn't recommend.

It took years for me to get an actual answer from Toyota as to what that phrase meant. I was told by Toyota Canada that Toyota does not make a WDH and that they do not have a relationship with any WDH manufacturer which is why there is no specific WDH that they recommend.

My Hidden Hitch receiver was installed at the Toyota dealer prior to me taking possession of my new RAV4 ( back in 2008 ). It was recently inspected by the dealer and was all good.

[ladonmar]

We have a Lil Snoozy. Doesn’t need sway bar. It has hydraulic surge brakes rather than electric ones. Love how it works. Brakes are a need for sure. Whether hydraulic or electric.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by ladonmar

We have a Lil Snoozy. Doesn’t need sway bar. It has hydraulic surge brakes rather than electric ones. Love how it works. Brakes are a need for sure. Whether hydraulic or electric.

How often do you back in into a lake?

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by gordon2

LOL someone should tell Toyota that...

My van's manual makes it clear that the van needs to be equipped with a anti-sway device when towing trailers over a certain weight (the number escapes me at the moment).

Are you certain that your manual states sway control device? Our 2013 Toyota Sienna’s manual said a weight distribution hitch was needed above some limit (I also forget the number), but made no mention of sway control.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Are you certain that your manual states sway control device? Our 2013 Toyota Sienna’s manual said a weight distribution hitch was needed above some limit (I also forget the number), but made no mention of sway control.

Well now that you mention it.. I was not so sure.

Checked, and now I am sure.

[Glenn Baglo]

I would consider a weight distribution hitch to be a sway control "device", since I use one and have not experienced sway.

[Wayne Collins]

There was a video out some time ago that demonstrated (with a small model car and trailer on a treadmill) the importance of proper loading. The trailer must be heavier ahead of the axle. 10% to 15% on the hitch is ideal.
Factors that affect sway are:
- Wheel base of the tug and trailer. The father back that the axle is on the trailer, the less tendency to sway.
Distance the hitch ball is behind the tug's rear axle. Shorter is better.
- Any looseness in the ball mount to receiver connection. Keep it tight.
- Jerky driving. Keep a steady hand on the steering wheel.
- Excessive speed, bumpy roads.

Our Highlander and Parkliner do very well with no WDH, or Sway bar.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I would consider a weight distribution hitch to be a sway control "device", since I use one and have not experienced sway.

Does that mean my safety chains can also be considered a sway control device, since I use them and have not experienced sway?

But seriously, some WDH designs include integrated sway control, but not all do.