Sway control

[LyleB]

Ok, when does trailer "rock" become classified as "sway"? In towing over 5,000 miles since last fall, I have noticed my Scamp wiggling around behind me, but nothing that really affected handling or made the rig feel at all unstable - 13 foot Scamp towed by long bed F-150.

In doing research online, I have found varying degrees of paranoia about "sway". Some seem to believe that any amount is catastrophe waiting to happen, others assure that minor wiggling while highway driving should be expected, and is fairly normal. They seem to indicate that as long as it is not making the driving/handling tiring and/or a "white knuckle" experience, that all is well. All videos and representations of sway show very severe cases in which there is no doubt what is happening.

I have no shower, or water heater nor a gray tank. The battery and propane are on tongue. During travel, I put my tool box and two or three full water jugs in the privacy room. Water tank usually empty. Nothing exceptionally heavy in rear, nothing hanging on back. Trailer is slightly nose down. Changes in loading do not seem to alter the handling. Axle and tires are new last spring. Tires are Carlisle STs, pressure 50# and checked each morning before traveling.

I have not actually weighed the tongue or trailer. Just wondering if a certain amount of "wiggle" in the trailer is normal. This is my first trailer towing experience, so I have little frame of reference.

Thoughts appreciated.

[ShelbyM]

I think the idea that one should not use a sway controller just because the trailer tows well under normal conditions is short sighted. The purpose, as I understand it, is to provide a margin of safety in an unusual situation. I don't know of any reason to not use one.

[Jon in AZ]

"Rock" is typically used to describe a different kind of movement in which weight transfers back and forth between the left and right side of the axle (i.e., rotating on the long axis). A couple of Hunter owners described experiencing the condition, insisting it was not "sway" in which the rear of the trailer moves laterally back and forth (i.e., pivoting on the ball in a horizontal plane). The rocking was traced to improper tires IIRC. Hunters have a leaf spring suspension; don't know if torsion axles are as vulnerable.

As to "wiggle"- which I would use to describe low amplitude damped sway- if it's only intermittent, like when you hit a bump or a semi passes, and if it quickly dies out, then I wouldn't be overly concerned.

It wouldn't hurt to do a little testing on a rural freeway with light traffic. Try going a little faster and see if it gets worse. Try a little nudge on the steering wheel and see if a slightly greater oscillation also dies out quickly. Try topping a hill at a slightly higher speed and backing off the accelerator on the descent. Keep the brake controller lever handy just in case. You're trying to make sure you're not on the cusp of undamped sway.

If the wiggle is continuous, if it occurs often and for no discernible reason, or if any of the road tests reveal a tendency toward instability, I'd keep looking for a problem.

If everything checks out I'd install a sway bar and rest easy.

[LyleB]

Thanks for the detailed response Jon. I't try some of your suggestions and see what happens. Not a lot of hills around here, but maybe I'll head north a bit to find some when the weather warms.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

"Rock" is typically used to describe a different kind of movement in which weight transfers back and forth between the left and right side of the axle (i.e., rotating on the long axis). A couple of Hunter owners described the condition, insisting it was not "sway" in which the rear of the trailer moves laterally back and forth (i.e., pivoting on the ball in a horizontal plane). The rocking was traced to improper tires IIRC. Hunters have a leaf spring suspension; don't know if torsion axles are vulnerable.

As to "wiggle"- which I would use to describe low amplitude damped sway- if it's only intermittent, like when you hit a bump or a semi passes, and if it quickly dies out, then I wouldn't be overly concerned.

It wouldn't hurt to do a little testing on a rural freeway with light traffic. Try going a little faster and see if it gets worse. Try a little nudge on the steering wheel and see if a slightly greater oscillation also dies out quickly. Try topping a hill at a slightly higher speed and backing off the accelerator on the descent. Keep the brake controller lever handy just in case. You're trying to make sure you're not on the cusp of undamped sway.

If the wiggle is continuous, if it occurs often and for no discernible reason, or if any of the road tests reveal a tendency toward instability, I'd keep looking for a problem.

If everything checks out I'd install a sway bar and rest easy.

Great post Jon. I agree completely.

Of course all trailers are going to move around some back there, with pot holes, cross winds and steering wheel movements. It's a continuing oscillation that becomes a problem. Any inherent instability needs to be discovered and stopped, where the trailer wants to get into a repeating cycle that tends to get worse on its own. If there is none, good. A sway control is good insurance.

On my Oliver it's not so easy to install one because of the way the tongue is designed. I was nervous about it at first, but I have never been able to do anything to make it even hint at an oscillation. And since I also know how to apply the trailer brakes manually, I've decided to not run a damper.

Not saying that that is the best solution, but it's where I ended up. I had a trailer get out of control one time and it was not fun! I finally got it stopped after using up all the lanes on the freeway and having everyone behind me slow way down. In that situation, everything was fine and then suddenly it wasn't. I had no trailer brakes either (big, big mistake!, never again!) My father bought a used travel trailer and towed it a short distance home with his Cherokee. It began to sway on a downgrade, took him off the road and rolled his TV. Pretty exciting.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by John Perry

HIDING does not solve a dangerous underlying problem which could have catastrophic results!!

I have towed 6 horse trailer across country, stock trailers, boat trailers, 5th wheel trailers Scamps, Burros, Casitas and various trailers of all sizes,
I cannot begin to imagine how many miles I have towed in my many years on this earth.
The reason I have become inactive and just check in once in awhile is well meaning but wrong advice.

IF you use a away bar to eliminate a sway under normal driving conditions, even slowing down, could be a deadly mistake.
I saw to many needless trailer accidents while working as a Nevada Sheriff's Deputy and Highway Patrolman.

The stinger I use to tow my UTV trailer has a second small ball on it for a sway control which I used about 5 years ago when I visited Yellowstone and all of the other National parks in that area of the country.
As I remember the trip was a little over 6000 miles.
I never could tell the difference with the sway control which I used only for the first half of the trip.
IF you load your trailer properly, tires are inflated properly and your trailer is in good mechanical condition, in my many years and miles of towing experience, you do not NEED a sway control.

John

All due respect.
My issue was not with your experience, it was with your statement "A sway control only hides the problem!!"

A sway control serves a much better purpose ,which is adding comfort, improved handling and security to a tow system which is properly set up to begin with.
I use a friction sway control on my RV trailer for just those reasons.

I would prefer the word "WANT" to the word "NEED".
It is clear that you can determine what you need, but you can hardly determine what I need, let alone what I want.
I won't presume to question your credentials, except to assert that mine are at least adequate to do so.
If you can't tell the difference, don't buy one.
I CAN tell the difference and the benefit clearly outweighs the paltry investment.

[John Perry]

If you feel better having a sway control have one.
I have no problem with that.
I simply do not want people new to towing to think they NEED things when they don't.
I want them to realize a danger they may be hiding with a sway control

I think the only people who may have towed more miles than my self and with different trailers of all sizes are commercial truckers.

A properly designed and loaded, mechanically sound trailer with properly inflated, sound tires does not need a sway bar.
If they really NEEDED a sway bar the manufacturer would have included one to eliminate liability.
I will add if the TV hitch height is so high it causes the front of the trailer to be elevated that may also contribute to sway.
The trailer should be as close to level as possible when towed.
I'm done!
John

[John Perry]

Originally Posted by LyleB

Ok, when does trailer "rock" become classified privacy
Thoughts appreciated.

If you're sure your trailer is in good mechanical condition and your comfortable with the handling of your rig while towing a sway control might be the thing for you.
How close to level is your trailer when it's being towed?

John

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by John Perry

A properly designed and loaded, mechanically sound trailer with properly inflated, sound tires does not need a sway bar.

I'm done!
John

There's the variable; "properly designed and loaded". It's easy to say something will always be fine or work correctly if it's "properly designed and loaded", of course it will, but it's difficult to expect everyone to always properly load their rig, or never have a leaking tire, or some other variable. Nobody knows how close or far they are from an unstable situation. I've seen so many trailers with generators or other equipment hanging off the rear bumper, cargo tied on top, poor or under inflated tires, brakes that don't work or tow vehicles that were way undersized. All variables that are not "proper" and drivers that didn't realize the possible stability problems they had.

Maybe it's better to have an additional safety feature that can compensate for a mistake, or new situation, or a lack of understanding, than it is to assume every rig will always be set up right and therefore not need it.

[LyleB]

Originally Posted by John Perry

How close to level is your trailer when it's being towed?

John

The trailer rides very slightly nose down.

[C&G in FL]

Girl I knew bought a "knock-off" Aliner type trailer which had a bathroom and front storage compartment into which she only put four folding Camp chairs and a propane fire pit. No sway problem, but when hitched, the tongue weight was well in excess of 400 lbs, and exceeded the tongue weight allowed for her Honda Pilot. She had to fill the fresh water tank which was behind the trailers axle in order to drop the tongue weight. That, to me, indicates somewhat of a design flaw. I'm not sure I would consider having to fill the fresh water tank is an exercise in proper loading. Just saying that with some trailers, the weight distribution wouldn't seem to be proper to begin with.

[Raspy]

CPW,

I agree.

I had a 20' toy hauler with a 100 gallon water tank right in the front. That thing could vary it's tongue weight by almost 800 lbs by just filling or draining the water tank. Ridiculous and definitely not proper in my book. Of course, it also had the batteries and propane tanks on the tongue too! Sheesh. I needed a load leveling hitch even on my 1 ton Ram.

Bottom line: Not everything is set up right even at the factory. It didn't sway, but it was terrible to tow and put a lot of stress on the hitch.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Raspy

CPW,

I agree.

I had a 20' toy hauler with a 100 gallon water tank right in the front. That thing could vary it's tongue weight by almost 800 lbs by just filling or draining the water tank. Ridiculous and definitely not proper in my book. Of course, it also had the batteries and propane tanks on the tongue too! Sheesh. I needed a load leveling hitch even on my 1 ton Ram.

Bottom line: Not everything is set up right even at the factory. It didn't sway, but it was terrible to tow and put a lot of stress on the hitch.

A toy hauler is really just a utility/Cargo trailer with a place to sleep, proper factory set-up means something a lot different from an RV trailer.

An RV trailer on the other hand is pretty consistent and much easier to balance, especially something like the Scamp13 which is the best inherently balanced trailer I have ever towed.Of course anything which includes improved handling and stability can be argued to be a "safety device".
I didn't buy my friction sway device primarily for safety though, but as a device to improve comfort, handling, and security.
Like the Nittos on my Mustang, the friction sway on on my trailer was added to improve my driving experience, the added safety is merely a bonus.

[richardr]

We currently have a Casita FD17 and we are buying an Escape 21 (double axle). I currently use a mechanical anti-sway bar. I've been told that double axle trailers have less need for anti-sway bars. What do others think?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by richardr

We currently have a Casita FD17 and we are buying an Escape 21 (double axle). I currently use a mechanical anti-sway bar. I've been told that double axle trailers have less need for anti-sway bars. What do others think?

What will you tow it with? Will you be using weight distribution hitch?

[richardr]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

What will you tow it with? Will you be using weight distribution hitch?

Probably a Tundra. No WDH.

[Glenn Baglo]

You will likely find somebody towing with that exact combo if you post your question on the Escape Forum.
Escape Trailer Owners Community

[van de Kamper]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Charlie & Renée,

There are a couple of good videos posted on this site that dramatically illustrate the effect of weight distribution on model tow and trailer combos. There is one on this thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...way-76462.html

One very knowledgeable and experienced member had difficulties with a small (Compact) trailer after he added better stabilizer jacks on the rear, perhaps adding some 25 lbs additional.

Bikes can sway or bounce on the rack, and the connection between the rack and the trailer may have some additional play. This can amplify the impact that the bikes moving will have on the trailer.

I suggest reviewing some of the posts here and elsewhere online regarding this subject, checking if the bikes can bounce, and weighing the tongue. From there, you will have to make some decisions and try some changes.

I suggest initially focusing on the loading as you may be able to get everything under control just by doing that.

And, final counsel, don't ever decelerate! (OK, just kidding!)

Thank you for taking time to respond! This site is so very excellent! I'll weigh the trailer once loaded and report back to this thread in May or June.

[Joe Romas]

Thirty five posts and no one has mentioned what proper tongue weight is that I could see

without knowing the trailer's weight a random number is worthless

Tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the trailer's weight

My 17' Casita SD weights a tad under 3000#'s loaded and I have 400# tongue weight or 13.3% and never had the slightest hint of sway but I do have an anti sway bar and WDH.

Joe