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03-30-2018, 11:35 AM
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#1
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Member
Name: kanga
Trailer: scamp 16
Oregon
Posts: 33
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sway control needed on 16'?
Towing down the highway we noticed some concerning sway on our 16' scamp. Is it common for folks to use a sway control bar for their scamp or do we just have too much weight near the back? We weighed our unit fully loaded with water and it came out to 2800lbs. We have the side dinette version with larger fridge, furnace, awning, air cond., 6 gal. water heater, 12 gal.tank, 2- full 7 gal propane, large 29DC battery and front bathroom. Would it help with sway to move all our storage weight up front and not filling the water tank or just get a sway control for safety? thanks
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03-30-2018, 12:07 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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You need to weigh your tongue. It should be 10-15 per cent of the trailer weight. I use a Sherline tongue scale.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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03-30-2018, 12:10 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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A sway control device is intended as a back-up for emergency situations, not to correct sway in normal driving.
So yes, adjust your set-up until you get a stable tow. And then yes, add a sway control device as a safety back-up.
Adjust your loading to get at least 10-15% tongue weight. If practical, traveling with less water would help. Also make sure you trailer is level when hitched. A nose-high attitude contributes to sway in a single axle trailer by shifting the center of mass rearward. Finally, center weight over or slightly forward of the axle. Weight way at the back, even when countered by weight at the front, is less stable than weight in the middle.
We used to carry two bicycles on a rear rack, counterbalanced by our awning, camp chairs, heavy ice chest, and 5 gallons of water at the front of the cabin. No sway, but...
On our last trip our bike rack malfunctioned, so I moved the awning, water, and bicycles right over the axle (and the ice chest into our tow vehicle). The improvement in ride and handling was striking. I am retiring that bike rack permanently.
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03-30-2018, 12:52 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Need more information...
What tow vehicle in what condition?
Are you referring to a friction sway device or a WDH?
Generally the addition of a friction sway device is a plus, but ONLY after the trailer is balanced and tows well without it.
Your TV should also be loaded in a balanced manner, keeping in mind that tongue weight is part of payload and that it is all the way back on the TV.
Tire pressure is also important all the way around, paying special attention to the rear tires on the TV. An increase over normal driving pressure is generally advised for the TVs rear tires.
Tire choice is also a factor. For instance , my TC tires are not "P" or "LT". They are labeled "Extra Load". They look and perform like a performance passenger tire, but have a max pressure rating of 51PSI and a load rating more than 300 pounds over the equivalent sized car tire.
To the point...
A Scamp16 is a pleasure to tow and is very stable at reasonable speeds when properly loaded and towed by a properly equipped and competent TV.
When properly balanced, you should have adequate margin to tow it with fresh water on board, but I would avoid towing with large quantities of graywater... Best to tow with the gray tank at or near empty. The additional weight is a factor, but so is the fact that the gray tank is not baffled.
When all else is done and you are satisfied with the rigs handling, add a friction sway device. I promise you will like it.
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03-30-2018, 01:11 PM
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#5
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Member
Name: kanga
Trailer: scamp 16
Oregon
Posts: 33
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Is there an easier and cheaper way to weigh the tongue without paying $150 for a sherline? The trailer is level while hitched to the tacoma, as I stuck those camco level bubbles along the seam of the scamp. We may try out the friction sway as we have it on hand. Our tires are LTs and filled to 33psi per truck manual. The sway usually happens when going over 60 mph on roads that are not perfectly level. What pressure should the scamp tires be at? We have 195/75/14" tires on it pumped to 40psi.
Are there any limitations or things to know about using a friction sway control unit other than having to disconnect it when backing up? Do they make turning difficult or limited? thank you
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03-30-2018, 01:27 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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You can weigh the tongue using a bathroom scale. You might be able to weigh it directly by putting a jack stand on the scale (set to normal towing height). Use the tongue jack to lower the coupler onto the stand.
If your tongue weight exceeds the limits of the scale, you'll have to set up a board with one end on the scale and the other end (level) on a solid platform. Put the jack stand at the center of the board, adjusted to normal towing height. Again, use the tongue jack to lower the coupler gently onto the jack stand. Assuming the coupler is centered on the board, the scale will show half the tongue weight.
With either method, remember to subtract the tare- whatever weight the platform and stand add to the scale.
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03-30-2018, 03:25 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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I'd use chunk of plywood or such to spread the weight on the bathroom scale. I didn't and the jack post crushed the scale.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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03-30-2018, 03:46 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: Escape 21C
New York
Posts: 2,387
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Walmart sells a bathroom scale that will handle up to 550 lbs for $30.00. It will also tell you if you are fat (you, not the trailer). I discovered that I'm too short.
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03-30-2018, 04:11 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye
Walmart sells a bathroom scale that will handle up to 550 lbs for $30.00. It will also tell you if you are fat (you, not the trailer). I discovered that I'm too short.
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I didn't realize they went that high. Sign of the times, I guess... Last one I bought only went to 300 pounds. Agree with Glenn on a pad to protect the scale.
As a note, if you just put the tongue jack directly on the scale (with a pad to spread the weight), you will get a reading that is a bit higher than if you weigh it right at the coupler using a freestanding jack stand or other support due to the lever principle.
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03-30-2018, 04:25 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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I have an old Healthometer balance scale which I got at a garage sale for a couple of bucks. It is accurate and measures weights up to 350 pounds.
It has a steel step plate and needs no protection.
It is important to have the trailer level for accuracy.
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03-30-2018, 04:29 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
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^^ All good advice ^^
Plenty of how-tos on the net for weighing tongue with a bathroom scale. BTW I bought one at Goodwill for $5. I'm pretty sure that your tongue will be under 300, 350 for sure, so any bath scale should work with the direct method (i.e. no need for a lever).
Do you travel with water on board, if so, is it more than you need to get to where you can get more water? If so, then why?
My Scamp 16 is a different layout but it barley met the 10% recommendation. Among other things, I took the spare off the back.. and I dont carry water in the rear tank.
Sway is not a problem but lawyers are. You see., Toyota says I need a sway control device with a trailer over a certain weight, and that includes the scamp. So even if for no any other reason than liability, I have a sway bar.
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03-30-2018, 04:31 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye
I discovered that I'm too short.
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Exactly my problem too Jon. According to the weight chart, I'm supposed to be 6'1". [emoji23]
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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03-30-2018, 09:33 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 700
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03-30-2018, 10:14 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Tim
Trailer: '88 Scamp 16, layout 4
North Florida
Posts: 1,547
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I had some sway a few times and while maybe not life-threatening it was very concerning for a few tense moments. Once to avoid a crash I got run off the road and while correcting things got pretty scary. Other times I notice big flat-fronted motorhomes passing me at high speed caused un-nerving sway. Since I installed one of the inexpensive friction sway controllers all is OK with the world. I never loosen it except if I need to when taking it off or installing it and have found it no hinderence to backing. I did completely jack-knife the trailer both ways after installing it just to make sure nothing bound up before hitting the road. All in the sway bar is the second best improvement I made to the safe towing of my Scamp. The first was a new axle with new, bigger (10" instead of 7") brakes.
I am going to step out a little here with some personal soap-boxing. I have no interest in raggedy-edge towing. By that I mean I tow my 16' Scamp with a half-ton pickup truck and feel safe with my family out on the road. It seems like sometimes people post with what is basically "how small/light a tow vehicle can I get away with" questions. Or "I have X mini tug, can I tow an FGRV?" Maybe, but I am not doing it.
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03-30-2018, 11:57 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Wolf
I am going to step out a little here with some personal soap-boxing. I have no interest in raggedy-edge towing. By that I mean I tow my 16' Scamp with a half-ton pickup truck and feel safe with my family out on the road. It seems like sometimes people post with what is basically "how small/light a tow vehicle can I get away with" questions. Or "I have X mini tug, can I tow an FGRV?" Maybe, but I am not doing it.
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+ 10
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03-31-2018, 12:45 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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From what I've read it appears that a friction anti-sway bar simply masks a real problem.
Let's take a look at the anti-sway bar does. actually let's look at the ball and hitch. The ball is mostly round and the hitch connects to it. This allows free movement between the trailer and tow vehicle. No skidding of tires, or extra wear of the trailer tires.
What does an (misnormered) anti-sway bar do. It stiffens the connection so the turning the trailer tires could skid. If the road is slick the trailer can whip from inside the turn to the outside dragging the tow vehicle with it. Simple HS physics.
The best thing to do if you have what appears to be sway find out why and fix it. Masking will sooner or later get you into trouble.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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03-31-2018, 01:13 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Wolf
I had some sway a few times and while maybe not life-threatening it was very concerning for a few tense moments. Once to avoid a crash I got run off the road and while correcting things got pretty scary. Other times I notice big flat-fronted motorhomes passing me at high speed caused un-nerving sway. Since I installed one of the inexpensive friction sway controllers all is OK with the world. I never loosen it except if I need to when taking it off or installing it and have found it no hinderence to backing. I did completely jack-knife the trailer both ways after installing it just to make sure nothing bound up before hitting the road. All in the sway bar is the second best improvement I made to the safe towing of my Scamp. The first was a new axle with new, bigger (10" instead of 7") brakes.
I am going to step out a little here with some personal soap-boxing. I have no interest in raggedy-edge towing. By that I mean I tow my 16' Scamp with a half-ton pickup truck and feel safe with my family out on the road. It seems like sometimes people post with what is basically "how small/light a tow vehicle can I get away with" questions. Or "I have X mini tug, can I tow an FGRV?" Maybe, but I am not doing it.
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I am going to step out a little here and respond, I have no interest in raggedy-edge towing either, by that I mean that I tow my Samp13D with "rightsized" TVs set up as safely as I am capable of making it.
In the last couple of decades I have had only one really life threatening incident involving serious sway.
The sway was hard enough to lose a bumper cap and eject my stinky slinky onto the highway. We were traveling on I-24 with only one lane open when some "cowboy" in a semi decided to past the line of cars. He lost control in the unplowed and refrozen lane and decided to just take back the open lane, literally and suddenly running me off the road onto the unplowed shoulder. MY short wheelbased TV "equally yoked" to my Scamp13 allowed me to regain control even in traffic with only three really hard corrections.
I have since bought another "rightsized" TV (105" WB ) with which I have towed just over 5000miles in all conditions, and after much applied thought and effort have found it to be the most stable combo I have yet driven.
I too use a friction sway device and recommend it.
I also appreciate the idea of going with 10" brakes,and have considered it, as long the new axle is detuned to a reduced load rating (probably to 2500#)to match my 13.
Your trailer actually is improved with a 3500# axle and 10" brakes and newer 16s come with them.
It may be true that some folks tow with inappropriately small TVs, it is also a fact that a TV can be inappropriately large for a good match as well.
I'm not saying that applies to a half ton (I assume you mean fullsized) truck pulling a Scamp16.
Still it is possible to optimize safety and pleasant towing capabilities with a vehicle which can also serve well as a daily driver and fit in a standard garage.
For example...
I would balk at the thought of towing my 13 with an F250 crewcab with 172" wheelbase and 4 feet of box behind the rear axle, even if it does have multiple times the required "ratings"
My whole rig is only 5ft longer than the aforementioned truck by itself
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03-31-2018, 05:49 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl V
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Like I said before, this technique is only needed when the tongue weight is close to or over the capacity of the scales. I am sure you can easily find a bathroom scale that will handle the Scamp tongue weight by direct measure.
Another note.. friction sway bars are not effective when wet, so if you are relying on it to control sway then it probably wont help when you need it most, in the rain. More reason to have the rig stable first and without added sway control.
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03-31-2018, 06:40 AM
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#19
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Member
Name: Scott
Trailer: Escape
Washington
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker22
What pressure should the scamp tires be at? We have 195/75/14" tires on it pumped to 40psi.
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Inflate your Scamp’s tires to the max cold inflation pressure that is stamped on the tire sidewall. Presumably you have ST (special trailer) tires, not P (passenger) tires? ST have a stiffer sidewall and handle the unique forces of trailering much better than P tires. Unlike car tires, your trailer should always run at max pressure, in part because they lose load capacity when under inflated. Also they can get squirrelly.
__________________
There is no such thing as political correctness. Just correctness.
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03-31-2018, 08:39 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
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floyd has the best advice
Floyd mentions in his post reasonable speeds to me this means no more than 60mph 55 better.
I would experiment with your weights on the tongue as mentioned and weight on the back before going to much farther in expense and work.
if that trailer is doing what you say I would be very careful to make sure that thing doesn't start wagging on you scarey and dangerous! I have had it happen and seen it happen!
good luck
bob
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