The New Subaru Ascent as a Tow Vehicle for a 17 foot Casita

[floyd]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Listed dry factory weights

17 ft Casita SD = 2480 lbs
17B Escape =. 2400 lbs


I can’t see how 80 lbs would change your tow vehicle or your towing experience but?

Shape/aerodynamics

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Wouldn't it be great if every manufacturer included a configurator on their website with a weight calculator?

If they did that, they'd have to offer a course so their customers would understand what it meant, and another on how to load a trailer.
I think "Trailer Weights in the Real World" is a better resource.

[floyd]

Anybody who has ever towed both closed and open trailers understands why the obsession with weight is insufficient.
An open trailer with a fullsized vehicle on board often tows easier than an empty enclosed trailer of equal floor space.
That is not to say that weight is not a factor, but is is only one of several which combine to produce real world limits.
Most "square" travel trailers and enclosed cargo trailers tow like a parachutes, compared to the aero designs of some fiberglass trailers of equal weight.

[thrifty bill]

Sadly I think it would take all of them to do it. Manufacturers benefit from low dry weights, it gives buyers a false sense of security. People hear what they want to hear. And if someone else does it, it must be right!

If only some do it, it will put them at a disadvantage to other manufacturers. People WANT to believe fictional weights.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

If they did that, they'd have to offer a course so their customers would understand what it meant, and another on how to load a trailer.
I think "Trailer Weights in the Real World" is a better resource.

Any data can be misunderstood, misused, or simply ignored by a person without some basic understanding of towing terminology and trailer dynamics.

The limitations of the "Trailer Weights" database include lack of data (especially newer models), unreliability (of user shared data), and possible skewing of the data (not random). At this point it seems to be dying- little new data is being added.

Nevertheless, I agree it's the best we have. That was my conclusion in the last paragraph.

[trainman]

Originally Posted by Debbie in Florida

Hi All....the Suburu Ascent is finally at my local dealer. It has a 2.4 L 4 cylinder tubrocharged engine, continuous variable speed transmission --- not that I understand what all this means. It is rated to tow 5,000 pounds. I will learn more but wanted advice on what you folks thought about buying a vehicle with an engine this size. Motor Trend says it is the first time used; the Subaru dealer just told me on the phone that a 2.5 4 cyliner turbocharged has been used before, on a model I was not familiar with. Not sure I want to be a test case for a new engine although I do like Subarus. The torque is 277 and the HP is 260. Any advice? I plan to put in my order for a Casita 17 ft delux very soon (All this delayed by trying to sell my condo!) and want to travel in all sorts of terrain. Thanks for advice.

Personally I would give the consideration to the Toyota 4-Runner if you just wanted a SUV with the factory tow package, tried, tested, and proven for many
Casita owners. Why not go with what works then be a test case for something new.

trainman

[WaltP]

Others have paid early for their Escape to lock in the current exchange rate. When I paid for my Sept. '17 pickup the rate was .75.

Walt

[Peder_y2k]

[QUOTE=Debbie in Florida;705860]Hi All....the Suburu Ascent is finally at my local dealer. It has a 2.4 L 4 cylinder tubrocharged engine, continuous variable speed transmission --- not that I understand what all this means. It is rated to tow 5,000 pounds. I will learn more but wanted advice on what you folks thought about buying a vehicle with an engine this size."

I use a Subaru Forester for towing a 1000# trailer, and I would not trust a turbo charged engine in this size for towing, as the torbocharger would run most of the time putting great strain on the little engine. For non towing applications, the turbocharger runs intermittently alowing the engine to cool down and rest from straining itself. Best to choose a bigger normally aspirated engine, or even t-charged version in the 4.0 liter range that won't be strained. Also, most t-charged engines require premium fuel because the anti-knock features may not keep up with rapid changing engine operating conditions.
Personally, I prefer turbocharged engines, and currently have a 2.5 liter 4 cyl car with non intercooled t-charger, but then I know how to use the t-charger without breaking things.

[Tom 72]

Walt, a good move, won't easily be beaten.

[Collin goes campin]

Hi Debbie,
We're just fresh back from over 1,000 miles in a non-turbo 2017 Subaru Outback with the 4 cylinder and the CVT. Did over 5,000 miles last year with the same setup, which is to say that car towing 1,100 lb pop-up. Let me tell you, that thing is THE BEST!!! We run all over the Rockies, in tow, and keep up with / outrun the Tundra crowd all day long without a sweat. Across the plains, we get 22 mpg average with the cruise locked at 82 mph. The simulated paddle shifters give you wonderful engine-braking control on the long descents, and also serve well to remove the 'kick-down lag' that typical automatic transmissions have when you put the spurs to it.


If you'll kindly refer to this Cult of Subaru pamphlet, you'll see that Subaru is a division of Fuji Heavy Industries and as such is one of the planet's most enduring manufacturers of all varieties of machinery. Their flat-4 engine design is in use all over the planet as one of the very most common engines used on things that have to be reliable and run constantly with absolutely minimal maintenance or failure: they power refrigeration on containerized cargo ships, they run bilge pumps on all kinds of ocean-going merchant vessels... Subaru continually does Research and Design, but their engine is so solid that their R&D goes into safety and fit-and-finish rather than perpetually re-designing the main engine like all other makers seem to perpetually do.


Lastly, there's no reason at all to buy the 6-cylinder unless you like to get 30% less m.p.g. to have a negligably faster run from 0-60. Keep the 4-cylinder in it's torque above 2,800 r.p.m. or so and you will have a 50-to-80 mp.h. acceleration that'll keep you moving with the fastest traffic.

[pjanits]

Just looked up the Ascent on the Subaru website as I am also looking for a 5000 lb tow vehicle. They show a picture of it towing a very large looking Airstream. I find this dubious at best. I guess I will wait and see.

[steve dunham]

We own a 17ft Casita SD and I would not attempt to tow my trailer with a Subaru even if has a turbo charged engine If I was going to recommend a turbo charged vehicle for towing it would be a Ford F 150 EcoBoost

[Jon in AZ]

Towing at 82 mph?!

My '93 Subaru was a great vehicle but less reliable than the Hondas and Toyotas I've owned. The boxer engine was prone to oil leaks. Both front and rear main seals had to be replaced during my 14-year ownership.

Never had any kind of major driveline repair on any of the Hondas or Toyotas.

On the other hand, the torquey grunt, balanced handling, and winter capability of the Subaru were unmatched. I'd at least consider another, but I'd hesitate to recommend the Ascent for serious towing duty at this point.

Most modern conventional automatics also have some kind of manual mode. It is a feature I'd want on a tow vehicle.

[Jon Vermilye]

Seems some of the automakers are getting a bit less conservative. Toyota is listing one version of the RAV4 with a 4 cylinder non turbo engine at 3500/350. 5000 seems like that 4 cylinder turbo will be working hard.

Has anyone seen the hitch weight rating on the Ascent? Subaru has often rated the tongue weight well under 10% of the listed tow weight...

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Any data can be misunderstood, misused, or simply ignored by a person without some basic understanding of towing terminology and trailer dynamics.

The limitations of the "Trailer Weights" database include lack of data (especially newer models), unreliability (of user shared data), and possible skewing of the data (not random). At this point it seems to be dying- little new data is being added.

Nevertheless, I agree it's the best we have. That was my conclusion in the last paragraph.

If you go to the spreadsheet version I keep at my website, you will find fairly current updates. It also allows sorting & filtering by make & size, etc. Since I don't carry a scale (other than a 500 pound limit tongue weight scale) I can't guarantee the accuracy the Frederick did, but with his permission I have kept the Trailer Weights going using user derived values.

[Bobbie Mayer]

I think everyone is ignoring the fact that this particular vehicle was designed to work as a tow vehicle. I still want to wait and see some real-life towing reviews, but I'm not writing it off.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Bobbie Mayer

I think everyone is ignoring the fact that this particular vehicle was designed to work as a tow vehicle. I still want to wait and see some real-life towing reviews, but I'm not writing it off.

If that is true, why can't we find the maximum tongue capacity anywhere?
And why are none of the other Subaru vehicles fully capable of towing ( all with very low tongue capacity )?
BTW, I owned a Subaru Loyale GL Wagon for 13 years and in my ignorance, towed a tent trailer ( no brakes ) with it.
Lucky to be here ( and so is the rest of the family ).

[WaltP]

That's okay. My first trailer was a 1995 13' Casita Patriot Deluxe with no brakes and I towed it for over a year with a 2000 Subaru Forester. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Walt

[FlyGuy]

I towed a new 2010 17' Casita Spirit Deluxe with a 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan for two years without a problem (including trips over Continental Divides + a trip to Leadville, CO which is ~12,000' above sea level). I had ordered the Sienna with the factory tow package so, it was rated to tow 3500# (my Casita started at < 2,500#; fully loaded, it was < 3,000#). The concern I would have would be the Variable Speed Transmission (I have no idea how well a VST will stand up to the demands of towing). I would want the Subaru deal to put IN WRITING ON THE SALES CONTRACT that the particular Subaru you're buying IS suitable for towing up to whatever weight Subaru claims. That way, they can't ding you claiming you should NOT have been towing a trailer (you will NEED a Class 3 Weight Distributing hitch which I would have installed by the dealer). I would also, ASAP, get your rig "Smart Weighed" (an inexpensive procedure that gives you the EXACT weight at EACH tire of your rig. Escapees & RVSEF events often have this valuable service available. That way, you'll have PROOF that you did not exceed the tow weight limit.

My Casita was a WONDERFUL way to "test the waters" re RV lifestyle. I've since "graduated" to a Super-C RV (2015 Dynamax DX3-37RB ).

[Tom 72]

I searched everywhere for hitch weight the other night and came up empty, like Glenn.

I searched payload and the response was 1,397 to 1,570 lbs. Maybe others know how to interpret that.

The car is rated for 8 passengers. If you load 8 passengers, with luggage on the roof, I suppose. How much left for the hitch? That's what I figured.

Ok, most people here won't be towing with 8 passengers. Maybe 4 or 5. Maybe 2. Try 2 people with luggage, is that near 450-500lbs? Add a 300-400 lb hitch [pretty conservative, based on 5,000], fill the back with gear. Would that work?