Thoughts on a Tug?

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi All,

I have taken some time over the last couple of weeks to research tugs assuming a real world trailer weight of 3,500 lbs. Given a real world trailer weight of 3,500 lbs., I am eliminating all tugs rated at 3,500 lbs or less. On the other hand, I don't really want to do hardcore overkill in terms of a tug since it will be used as a daily driver, so no long bed quad cab F350 dually!

I figure a tug rated at around 5,000 lbs would suffice. I have been a Motor Trend subscriber for about 35 years and I researched all truck/SUVs with a tow capacity of around 5,000 lbs to preferably no more than about 7,000 lbs with the goal of staying closer to 5,000 lbs. I have researched both SUVs and Pick Ups. My DW prefers an SUV. I prefer a quad cab PU, but given a smaller trailer (16' or 17'), I am fine with an SUV.

Tow capacity is a primary issue, but other important issues include:
1. Reliability
2. Safety
3. MPGs

I think the above are my ranked ordered priorities (assuming the tow capacity issues has been met).

I have no brand loyalty and have tended to drive small cars during my adult life, including 1 old Datsun, 2 Mazdas (including a minivan), 1 Subaru, an old Saab, an old Volvo 240, 1 Toyota, three Hondas, and a Ford Taurus.

OH, let me make this decision even tougher. The tug has to be used. Cannot afford a new tug. In fact, here are the parameters I have established given my research and my budget:

1. Try to stay as close to $10,000 as possible.
2. Try to stay under 120,000 miles.
3. Try to stay no older than 10 years old.

Yes, I know. I just made this tougher.

Over the last couple of weeks and most of the day today, I have read and reviewed used Audi Q7s, Buick Enclaves (as well as GMC Acadias and Chevy Traverses), Ford Explorers, Ford Expeditions, Ford Flexs, GMC Yukons (Chevy Tahoes), Jeep Grand Cherokees, Land Rovers, Lexus GXs, Mercedes Benz ML 350s, Nissan Pathfinders, Nissan Xterras, Porsche Cayennes, Toyota 4 Runners, Toyota Sequoias, and VW Tourareg as well as the following 4 door pickups: Nissan Frontiers, Toyota Tacomas, and Toyota Tundras (the older ones are not quiet as big as the current ones).

Based on my research, there are several tugs that would do well, but factoring in reliability as a priority, it appears that one would be hard pressed to beat a Toyota product:
1. 4 Runner
2. Sequoia (too big)
3. Tacoma
4. Tundra

Given my limited parameters, it is not easy to find these cream puffs due to their popularity. I am not wedded to a Toyota product, but I think I would be happy with a 2004 to 2007ish Toyota 4 Runner or Tacoma (Quad Cab).

What are your thoughts? What I am missing, overlooking, or overthinking!

I always enjoy your expertise.

Thanks,

Dean

[Byron Kinnaman]

I would suggest that you look at "Trailer Weights in the Real World" before you assume a weight. It's part of this site.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Byron,

Trailer Weights in the Real World has been a great resource. I have printed it and have several rows highlighted in pink, blue, and yellow!!!

Thanks,

Dean

[Glenn Baglo]

I shall just await your conclusion after your exhaustive research.
Not sure about that Motor Trend subscription though. It was said that MT Truck of the Year, was whichever was most heavily advertised in the magazine. I was partial to Car and Driver and Sports Car Illustrated.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Glenn,

Love your Escape 17B and RAV4 Sport V6. I assume that combo is working well for you. I have read Motor Trend, Road & Track, Car and Driver, and Automobile over the years. Sometimes three subscriptions at once!!! For whatever reason, I have always stayed with Motor Trend!!! It is the only one I have read for the last 20 years, I am guessing. But, my RV research has even trumped my MT reading. I am currently about 14 months behind reading it. Heck, it ain't a trend when I am reading it 14 months late!!! I am more interested these days in surfing the net for everying RV!

Have a good night,

Dean

[Glenn Baglo]

Don't forget Car Craft magazine.

[Cathi]

The 4runner changed significantly in the last five years with the fifth generation. Doubt it can make your budget, however, you might want to compare the newer ones to older.

[mary and bob]

A year ago I was looking for a truck to tow a Casita 17 we had just bought. Started out in the $10,000 range with no acceptable results. Kept bumping up my price until I got to $20,000 and found a 2012 Dodge Ram 1500 with only 17,000 miles on it and bought it for just over that 20 figure. It has the 5.7 engine and tow/haul mode transmission feature and pulls the Casita really good. Pulls into gas stations good too, LOL, but it works for me. Don't use it as a daily driver but it can get close to 20 mpg not towing and in ECO mode where it cuts out cylinders if you're cruising along under no load. Low mileage Tundras were out of my price range and a Chevy got sold while I was thinking about it, but it was $25,000 and had 24,000 miles on it.

[honda03842]

Dean,

The choice of a Tow Vehicle is dependent on so many factors, few discussed by auto magazines. Personally I don't think you begin by selecting a tow vehicle capacity. You mentioned a RAV 4 (V-6, 3500 lb capacity) and an Escape 17, Jon's very successful setup that has been all over the country. I think one needs to figure out what trailer and how you'll use it.

What trailer are you considering? The frontal area and weight are both important. The trailer you buy is partially dependent upon whether you buy new or used.

What kind of traveling do you intend to do? Local where you're doing weekend camping not driving too far, basically traveling a single class of roads or long distance where you're driving thru deserts and mountains in extreme weather. Possibly you're considering extended travel where you're all over the place driving all kinds of roads. There's really a very broad range of RVers on this site. SOme require 4 wheel drive because they really are off roaders, some really off road. Others a 2wd is enough, more affordable and reliable.

Is the tow vehicle used as your every day vehicle? As a every day vehicle the cost of operation comes into play since most of your driving is to work or around time with towing a minor portion of your driving. We travel most of the time, when we travel tow miles are less than half the miles we drive, exploring miles make up about 60% of all miles driven.

Is the cost of operation important? To me the cost of operation has purchase price, operational cost (mpg) and reliability as factors. Some are more talented than others and able to take care of tow vehicle issues, others every little issues is an out of pocket cost. We only own one vehicle making our vehicle choice even more important.

What kind of load will you carry with your tow vehicle? The bulk of us are traveling with only one or two people in the tow vehicle. How many in yours? Some carry a lot in their tow vehicle, kayaks, a generator, a screen room, a cooler, ... Some carry very little.

Is driving comfort important? We started with a CRV and recently moved onto an Odyssey. We always thought the CRV was comfortable, the Odyssey is really comfortable.

In our extended travel ability to tow the trailer is first. Second is reliability, when you're no where and know no one it's nice to have a vehicle that just works. Third is cost of operation, mpg and cost of maintenance.

There are similar considerations when choosing a trailer.

[Paul O.]

If you choose a pickup as your TV you can include the Scamp 5th wheel or one like that in your considerations. I am happy with this: Scamp 19D with Tacoma 4 door, V6.

[honda03842]

Good point Paul. something I missed in my post. There was a Scamp 19 for sale at the Scamp Camp our first year. If I had owned a truck I would have bought a Scamp 19. It is certainly a low cost volume solution. It's unfortunate that Scamp has not chosen to make some up dates to a good concept and shell.

[alan H]

My tow of choice is a tacoma pickup w/shell
The truck is v6 4.0 and with the truck bed i can carry many of those larger items ( ice chest /folding chairs/firewood etc )
They normally end up on floor of trailer.... This makes life much easier in case we want a quick snack/ nap etc..... No more climbing over stuff to get into our 13' scamp..... And with the v6 and tow pkg i can easily tow a larger trailer if we decide to upgrade




Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[vintageracer]

As is always the case finding a vehicle capable of "pulling" a trailer is not hard at all. A bigger consideration for you should be a vehicle capable of STOPPING your pull vehicle AND the trailer. STOPPING NEVER seems to be a part of the discussion when people are considering a "pull" vehicle for puchase.

Since you did not mention the type/brand of trailer you pull it is a good chance your trailer may not have upgraded to have trailer brakes as most fiberglass trailers particularly older trailers do not have trailer brakes.

I suggest you budget a trailer brake upgrade to your trailer if it does not have trailer brakes. You should make this a key part of your "new to you" tow vehicle budget, upgrade & purchase. As light as these fiberglass trailers are and in many cases the tow vehicle trailer brakes for stopping the trailer and sway control of the trailer can be the difference between safely towing and an accident!

Since you stated you like and have always driven "smaller" vehicles trailer brakes may also help you to find that "smaller" tow vehicle you desire withing your budget that will allow you to travel, tow and STOP your trailer SAFELY!

[Lee Senn]

If DW prefers an SUV that would move SUVs to the top of my list and in that regard the Toyota Highlander would be one I would consider. Have owned a Rav4 V6 and am pulling a Bigfoot 17 quite successfully with it but it is only rated at 3500 lbs whereas the Highlander is rated at 5000 lbs ( at least the newer ones not sure as to the used ones in your parameters ). lee

[Civilguy]

There are two different tow weight ratings assigned to vehicles; the total trailer weight and the tongue weight. While most vehicles have tongue weights rated at 10% of the tow rating, this isn't always true. There are some vehicles such as the Volvo V70 that are notorious for having a very low tongue weight capacity relative to their total tow rating.

It sounds like you don't have a trailer yet, which can make this whole exercise a bit edgy as the weights and tongue weights of trailers vary so much. Have you “bought your third RV first” as they say? We towed a 1,600 lb tear drop trailer for a while so I could tow with my old Passat AWD wagon before investing in a tow vehicle. We are now on our second trailer, which did require that upgrade.

Many folks try to stay at or under 80% or so of the nominal ratings. That means keeping the total "real world" weight of the trailer, gear, and liquids at or below 80% of the vehicle's tow ratings. So, your 5,000 lb rating would correspond to a "real-world" 4,000 lb trailer weight, and the 3,500 corresponds to a potentially meager 2,800. However, using 80% or so can help keep the color in your knuckles when you go through an edgy bit of road conditions.

A vehicle's tow rating may require optional-but-necessary equipment such as transmission coolers. VW (and probably others) commonly publish lower tow capacities for pulling a trailer that does not have brakes.

Currently I am towing a lightly-loaded 17' Casita with a new-to-us 2010 Audi Q5. The Casita has a relatively high tongue weight. The Audi apparently has some fly-by-wire electronic enhancements to combat sway, (and perhaps even improve libido and hair growth). To date, I have been very impressed with the overall stability, braking and power. But, I haven't tackled high-plains Wyoming winds yet.

A weight distribution hitch and/or anti-sway gear or a lack thereof might also enter into the calculations. Looking forward, I have corresponded with folks who feel they have been favorably served by the Andersen WDH. I don't feel a strong need for much weight distribution, but I think some anti-sway might be a good thing. You will find that the whole subject of whether to use a WDH is another deep rabbit hole.

I will trust you to select a vehicle appropriate to accommodate the hounds, kayaks, mother-in-laws and muskie poles as you may travel with. I am attaching a copy of a spreadsheet with tow ratings and a “leading consumer magazine’s” summary score for an array of 2015 models. Maybe this will suggest a choice you had missed (Hyundai Santa Fe?). As a 2015 model is not within your budget parameter, you'll need to research whether previous-year models had similar ratings. But it sounds like you are the kind of guy that will enjoy doing that. Good luck Dean.

[Franswa]

the idea of discouting 20-25% is very much common/followed in the trailerboating community (way more than here, I'd say)....with the usual disclaimers, like if one only tows the boat a few miles to a boat ramp...that's a lot different than somebody towing a boat around Colorado....

I'm a good example....tow vehicle rating is 5000lbs (tow package and use of WDH)....my trailer's axle is rated 3500 and the weight on that axle is 3234 (trailer loaded for a trip)....add a few humdred pounds (200+?) on the tounge and I'm spot on 3500 GVW for the trailer....

I wouldn't want tow with anything smaller / with less tow rating.
There are lots of hills out there... and it's real nice to be able accelerate from a stop at the same rate as the rest of the traffic.

[floyd]

All Toyotas... sounds like you didn't need to do all that research to come to that conclusion!
Here are a few Motor Trend car of the year winners, and my toy Yoda...


Motor Trend car of the year...

[David B.]

The best tow vehicle we ever had was a 1994 Dodge 2500 Cummins Diesel single cab long bed 2 wheel drive. We paid $10,000.00 used, owned it for several years, and sold it for what we purchased for. It pulled our 13' Scamp up mountain grades without slowing down and without ever shifting out of overdrive, all while delivering 22-23 mpg. When not towing the Scamp interestingly enough, it only got 20-21 hwy and 18 combined hwy/city (driving like an old man), I think the Scamp must have changed the air flow behind the truck to break the "suction" coming off the cab height topper. I would have it today if it weren't for my 4x4 off-roading hobby being combined with our FGRV gathering.
Dave & Paula

[sokhapkin]

Best selling new truck makes good used truck :-) Why F-150 is out of picture?

[Wayne Collins]

You can't go wrong with a Toyota Highlander, regular, or hybrid.
Towing capacity ratings might be on the conservative side, so some plus or minus is OK, say 10% over the 3500 lb = 3850 total loaded trailer weight with 10 - 12% of that on the hitch.
Then you also need to check your total combined vehicle weight rating.

The Highlander makes a great everyday driving car.