Tongue weight problem

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by ORshepherd

I have a very interesting link from the UK to share. You'll need t do a litttle converting kg to lbs and find a FGRV alternative....I used the T@B .... You plug in your vehicle and your trailer and it will tell you if it's a good match.

TowCar.info - test your car and caravan outfit

Elizabeth,

That's the web site I used for reference when towing with our Honda CRV. It's interesting how big the trailers are that they tow (look on User Reviews of the web site) and the fact that there are people who tow at 70 mph. Interestingly they are often towing trailers weighing twice your trailer.

They certainly are fortunate that many of them tow with diesels.

[ORshepherd]

I'm with you LP....I have been reading all morning and for every point a person makes, another makes the opposite. YOu want to get really dizzy...check this out. It is for the XC90...but still...scroll down to the Towing table:

2005 VOLVO XC90

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

John, thanks for posting this link. The more I read and explore, the more it seems there is NO agreement on this issue anywhere.

I did copy these paragraphs from one of the posts (this was posted ELEVEN years ago, so weights and limits could definitely have changed):

"First, for the XC90, I found this article (Boats For Sale - Buy & Sell, New & Used Boats, Owners & Dealers) where they put 360 lbs on the tongue, which is almost 2x what Volvo recommends. *Interesting read...

As for the XC70, I started looking at all the international sites that Volvo has (language-selector | Volvo Cars) and I surfed the different countries to see what I can find. *I was able to find on the UK website (United Kingdom | Volvo Car UK Ltd) that they listed the following specifications on their towbars (hitches):

Max Towing Capacity • 1800kg
Tow Ball Diameter • 50mm
Recommended Ball Load • 85kg

So this means that the max towing capacity is about 3960 lbs and the recommended ball load is about 187 lbs. *I guess the cars in UK are built stronger

"


LP

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Unibody or not unibody is not determinative of towing capability. My unibody Highlander is rated for 5000 lbs with 500 hitch weight. Different unibodies have different hitch receiver attachment strength, different suspensions, different brake sizes and different drive trains and cooling systems; these are more determinative.

Which is why the manuals for these vehicles list their different and varying abilities and limitations.

But the reference to unibody discussed above related to the RV service manager's reference to "frame," which the Volvo does not have.

And yes, we understand there is a "body" unit which holds the entire car together (and also makes it stronger and safer in accidents), but this is different from a metal frame with a body sitting on it.


LP

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

John, thanks for posting this link. The more I read and explore, the more it seems there is NO agreement on this issue anywhere.

So this means that the max towing capacity is about 3960 lbs and the recommended ball load is about 187 lbs. *I guess the cars in UK are built stronger


LP

Did you read down a bit further for the maximum towing speed for that vehicle in that county, as well as Volvo's listed max towing speed? Those will both will effect the maximum weight a vehicle can safely tow.

If you could put a sticker on the back of your vehicle limiting your max speed to 50 MPH in exchange for a higher tow rating would you be willing to do that?

[ORshepherd]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Did you read down a bit further for the maximum towing speed for that vehicle in that county, as well as Volvo's listed max towing speed? Those will both will effect the maximum weight a vehicle can safely tow.

If you could put a sticker on the back of your vehicle limiting your max speed to 50 MPH in exchange for a higher tow rating would you be willing to do that?

[/INDENT]

YES

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Did you read down a bit further for the maximum towing speed for that vehicle in that county, as well as Volvo's listed max towing speed? Those will both will effect the maximum weight a vehicle can safely tow.

If you could put a sticker on the back of your vehicle limiting your max speed to 50 MPH in exchange for a higher tow rating would you be willing to do that?

[/INDENT]

Yes, I read through the entire thread... I would be willing to drive that slow, but would hope there is a way to gain a little more speed when it is completely safe to do so.

LP

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

Yes, I read through the entire thread... I would be willing to drive that slow, but would hope there is a way to gain a little more speed when it is completely safe to do so.

LP

In several European countries it's common to have KPH stickers either on the vehicle or on the trailer being towed to let other drivers know that you may have a lower speed limit that that posted.

In Germany, commercial vehicles can elect to have a lower, self imposed, max speed in exchange for lower registration costs. BUT.... It's a ticketable violation if you exceed the speed on your sticker. So, if you are on the Autobahn, and cars are flying by you at 150 kph, if you exceed your 80 KPH sticker speed, there can be a ticket in your near future.

The thinking on the Caravan speed limit is that there isn't a time or place when it's safe to exceed that speed if you wish to use that tow weight limit.

Can you imaging trying to exist on the interstates at 48-50 MPH? (80 KPH)

BTW: The reason the Germany has reduced the number of unlimited speeds zone on many autobahns is because of "Closing speed accidents". That's what happens when say, a VW at 120 KPH, pulls out to pass a 80 KPH truck and gets run into by a Mercedes at 240 KPH.

And in Germany, everyone drives in the right lane except when passing, otherwise a Mercedes/BMW/Audi etc, with headlights blinking, will be up your tail pipe in a Berlin minute.

[Darwin Maring]

The farther back from the axle the more of a difference it will make. If you I'll it and make a test, if it is not enough you can move more stuff to the back. The camper was designed to travel with a full tank of water so I have never worried about that. We always take a cooler along files with ice and water, soda, etc and you could put one back there on the other side if you thought a balance was appropriate.

If you try it and it does not work, just drain the water. Better than moving a battery back and forth.

[Jon in AZ]

Returning to balancing tongue weight on the Lil Bigfoot...

If you move the battery you may not have to fill the water tank. Moving 40-50 pounds from the tongue to behind the axle should by itself get this trailer in the right ballpark without increasing total weight one ounce.

Adding water (to the rear-mounted tank) will decrease tongue weight, but it will also increase total weight significantly. With a tongue weight limit of 165 pounds, the total weight should end up around 1600 pounds, which means there is only about 300 pounds to work with. You need to leave room for food, clothes, cooking gear, folding chairs, etc. Unless you're headed to a dry camp far from potable water, there's no reason to fill the tank.

[Bob Miller]

And not only that, the battery's weight, once moved stays moved. Not so when you are using water along the way.

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

And in Germany, everyone drives in the right lane except when passing, otherwise a Mercedes/BMW/Audi etc, with headlights blinking, will be up your tail pipe in a Berlin minute.

How true. And he rarely knows how to slow down safely. Especially in the old days (several decades ago), the left lane was the death lane. Those 240kph drivers thought they had the right to hit the slower ones. In general, the drivers in the US are so much more defensive and safer; when I visit in Europe, my brother admires how calmly I drive, letting people pass, etc. Many drivers in Europe still think it is a sport and all want to coach the others, who know nothing.

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Returning to balancing tongue weight on the Lil Bigfoot...

If you move the battery you may not have to fill the water tank. Moving 40-50 pounds from the tongue to behind the axle should by itself get this trailer in the right ballpark without increasing total weight one ounce.

Adding water (to the rear-mounted tank) will decrease tongue weight, but it will also increase total weight significantly. With a tongue weight limit of 165 pounds, the total weight should end up around 1600 pounds, which means there is only about 300 pounds to work with. You need to leave room for food, clothes, cooking gear, folding chairs, etc. Unless you're headed to a dry camp far from potable water, there's no reason to fill the tank.

Ron doesn't think the battery weighs that much, he's estimating 25 pounds or so. We'll find out when we take it out for recharge (it has been sitting a while).

Actually, we are headed for a dry camp on Labor day. And we have 4 major mountain passes to cross to get there, so I hate to lug water all that way. But we can fill up in some handy place once we get close, so that's not a problem.

LP

[Bob Miller]

An Interstate Group 24 RV Battery weighs between 41 & 46 lbs.
https://www.interstatebatteries.com/...o/marine_f.asp


If you have smaller than a group 24 battery you need a larger battery, 24 is minimum, Group 27 is preferred.


But it should have been charging in place when the shore cable was connected.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Unibody or not unibody is not determinative of towing capability. My unibody Highlander is rated for 5000 lbs with 500 hitch weight. Different unibodies have different hitch receiver attachment strength, different suspensions, different brake sizes and different drive trains and cooling systems; these are more determinative.

True that... like a late nineties 3/4 ton Chevy Cargo Van

[redbarron55]

No. of occupants 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Seating position Front seat Front seat 2nd row of seats 2nd row of seats 2nd row of seats Optional 3rd row of seats Optional 3rd row of seats
All Wheel Drive 5,000 lbs (2250 kg) 5,000 lbs (2250 kg) 4,500 lbs (2050 kg) 3,700 lbs (1700 kg) 2,900 lbs (1350 kg) 1,800 lbs (800 kg) Trailer towing not recommended
Max. trailer hitch tongue load 500 lbs (225 kg) 500 lbs (225 kg) 450 lbs (205 kg) 370 lbs (170 kg) 290 lbs (135 kg) 180 lbs (80 kg) -
Front Wheel Drive 4,000 lbs (1800 kg) 4,000 lbs (1800 kg) 4,000 lbs (1800 kg) 4,000 lbs (1800 kg) 3,700 lbs (1650 kg) 2,500 lbs (1150 kg) 1,400 lbs (650 kg)
Max. trailer hitch tongue load 400 lbs (180 kg) 400 lbs (180 kg) 400 lbs (180 kg) 400 lbs (180 kg) 370 lbs (165 kg) 250 lbs (115 kg) 140 lbs (65 kg)
This mess above indicated how the tobar loads are calculated. The limit is for the car loaded to its maximun recommended amount.
With the rear loading at basically Zero ( no rear seat passengers or load in the cargo area the limit is 500 lbs.
The low rating seems to be basically worst case.
In the case of the VW towbar the bar itself is rated 300 KG , but the installation is rated 100 KG or 220 lbs.
The owners manual suggests towing with 200 lbs on the hitch.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

In the case of the VW towbar the bar itself is rated 300 KG , but the installation is rated 100 KG or 220 lbs.
The owners manual suggests towing with 200 lbs on the hitch.

Without the use of a modern WDH the limitations are glaring/disappointing for sure. Will the day ever come when the off shore thinking will advance to where we are over here with connection technology???

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by MC1

Without the use of a modern WDH the limitations are glaring/disappointing for sure. Will the day ever come when the off shore thinking will advance to where we are over here with connection technology???

I read through the posted UK Towing sites reading the user reviews for Volvos. I did not detect the level of towing concern I read on our site. People did mention towing at 60 and 70 mph with trailers a lot larger than a 13 footer.

I'm not sure who's got it right, us or them. They certainly have the diesel part right.

As you know I towed at 200 lbs for the last 8 years.

[Darwin Maring]

Paul, You are so right. Years ago while headed from Munich to Frankfurt I was towing a pop up camper when I saw the cars way up ahead were stopped in both lanes, I was passing someone so I got back in the right lane and I looked in the mirror and here came a BMW at a high rate of speed. Just as I got in the R lane he saw everything ahead stopped and low and behold he rolled that car right next to me. If I had my window down I could have stuck out my arm and touched it as it rolled over.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I read through the posted UK Towing sites reading the user reviews for Volvos. I did not detect the level of towing concern I read on our site. People did mention towing at 60 and 70 mph with trailers a lot larger than a 13 footer.

I'm not sure who's got it right, us or them. They certainly have the diesel part right.

As you know I towed at 200 lbs for the last 8 years.

For sure Norm. In many cases they work out good over there for what they have. I believe it has more to do with the nature of their tow vehicle and trailer design than the connection. Those smaller nimble TV have many of the attributes that work so well as TV compared to the large bulky vehicles many use over here.

I know your rig performed well for many years on the ball. We had the same trouble free experience towing out big Coleman pop up all over the country with the Nissan van. Note on the ball with no sway control or trailer brakes.


Norm... RE Diesels.... Agree. The other day we test drove an 09 Mercedes M class Blutec. The drive train was amazingly smooth and with over 400TQ it really took off. The typical butt wiggling SUV ride was there. Thinking we will just keep the ol G35 for now.

[Bob Miller]

Say what you may about European drivers, but my experience, both on the road as well as when they are driving moi. is that they are much more cautious and have fewer traffic violations, the later perhaps because the fines and consequences are so high. Not to mention that the penalties for DUI are not only higher, but can be almost immediate. In Bulgaria, at least until recently, it could include the death sentence for a 2nd offense.
Here a chart showing fatalities per million kilometers. The United States appears to be much higher than Germany and many other Western European countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate