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Old 08-17-2012, 06:49 PM   #1
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Name: will
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Tongue Weights

I am pulling an '81 burro, 13ft that weights 1250#'s total (weight it at a salvage yard).

I am towing it with a 2003 2x4 front wheel drive ford escape, max towing 3500#.

I have a class II hitch, rated up to 3500# with a 350# max tongue weight, 500# max tongue weight with WDH (which i dont have).

I weighed the tongue weight tonight and came up with about 240. This is with a almost-empty propane tank on the tongue.

Problem is, I want to take bikes on my next road trip. I have a 11# bike rack that goes on the hitch (the Heininger 1011 Advantage SportsRack V-Rack 2-Bike Carrier everyone on here likes) and the bikes weight about 30#'s each, for a total of 60#s. I figured I would add in another 20#s for miscellaneous, like bike locks that will be on the bikes during travel, as well as a full propane tank.

That puts my tongue weight at about 340#, which is really close to the max rating. The burro axle is fairly far back, so I am worried that it will be hard to put some weight in the back and lighten up the tongue weight. Is it safe to travel this close to the max? I am thinking of ditching the bikes, or maybe taking the wheels off during travel.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:09 PM   #2
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put them inside trailer
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #3
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Lightening the Tongue Weight

Harley's idea is a good one, moving the bikes to an area over the axles. If you have a rear table lowering the table and moving them even further back would also lighten the tongue.

In our 2400 lb Scamp we try to keep the tongue weight below 200 lbs. We do this by keeping the tongue items few and having a bit of rearward weight.

We keep the tongue light with only one battery and one propane tank. Next year we plan to replace our steel propane tank with a fiberglass tank to further lighten the tongue.

We keep also have a fair amount of rearward weight. We do this three ways.

First we carry about 60 lbs of water. We carry the water because we feel it's comforting and necessary when boondocking.

Second we have 5 "beneath the floor" storage containers all mounted behind the axle. I doubt their contents are more than 15-20 pounds, but again in the correct direction.

Third we have about a 4 cubic foot bumper bon that attaches directly to our bumper. It probably contains 15-20 lbs and is as rearward as it gets. The bumper box contains, hoses, power cords, wooden blocks and a few tools.

All in all this balances the tongue and keeps from overloading the rear of the Honda allowing us to ride level. Though our hitch is rated for 350 lbs the highest rating I've seen for a CRV's ball is 220lbs. Next year we plan to move the ball about 3-4 inches closer to the axle to further reduce the load on the rear of the Honda, really just because it's easy to do.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:36 PM   #4
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Bikes

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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
put them inside trailer
CP lets see you put bikes in your new Escape. Maybe they could put the bikes on a rack behind the trailer.
Chuck
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:29 PM   #5
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That 240# tongue weight you already have seems sort of high. Is it possible you have items inside at the front that as Norm suggests you can move to the rear storage?


Check out these real world weights collected at a FG rally. http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f51/trailer-weights-in-the-real-world-43010.html


I'm not sure the stock rear bumper is really sturdy enough for the weight and leverage of a bike rack. I know some people do it and it works but looking at my scamp I would be trying to find a way to reinforce the bumper to the rest of the frame first.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:40 AM   #6
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CP lets see you put bikes in your new Escape. Maybe they could put the bikes on a rack behind the trailer.
Chuck
There is a big difference between a 31 year old trailer and a 6 month old one, ask me the same question 31 years from now and you may get a different answer. In the interim, I have 2 folding bikes which fit inside a custom bag which I can place on top of the bed in the 19" or on the floor.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #7
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What about as an alternative, I flip the hitch upside down so that the Ball is higher. Wouldn't this lower my tongue weight considerably because the trailer is not tilting down as far?
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:52 AM   #8
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Also maybe i measured the tongue incorrectly. I used a bathroom scale and some planks of wood and tried to approximate the height of my Tow ball. I might try this again today and see what I come up with.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:20 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by wklose99 View Post
What about as an alternative, I flip the hitch upside down so that the Ball is higher. Wouldn't this lower my tongue weight considerably because the trailer is not tilting down as far?
Then you may have sway...
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by wklose99 View Post
Also maybe i measured the tongue incorrectly. I used a bathroom scale and some planks of wood and tried to approximate the height of my Tow ball. I might try this again today and see what I come up with.
get one of these
Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #11
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Is sway a result of tongue weight or is sway a result of the angle at which it connects to your ball?
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #12
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Both, too light and the tail starts wagging and if not level more chance of sway, if both exists, then it becomes un towable.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:14 AM   #13
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Bathroom Scale Tongue Weighing

Weighing the tongue.

I use a $10 Walmart's bathroom spring scale with a mechanical dial.

I begin by chocking the wheels and making sure the rear jacks are up and the trailer level.

I place the scale under the ball. I put a protective board on the scale but not covering the scale's dial.

I place our bottle jack on the scale/board and unscrew the top of the jack so it almost touches the receiver where the ball goes in. I place a small board on top of the bottle jack. I jack up the jack until the scale stop's moving and/or until the trailer's front jack is off the ground.

I then read the scale. Let's say 212 lbs.

I than lower the jack and read the scale again. This will be the weight of the boards and jack, say the scale now reads 15 lbs. Subtract this from the 212 and get the tongue weight 197 lbs in this pretend case.

Later in the day I'll post a picture of our setup.

I use a 6 ton bottle jack because it's easy. One could use a small sissors jack as well.

Don't hesitate to ask if this is not clear.

If you want the to spend the money, the device Harley recommends is excellent. Since we carry a scale to weigh ourselves, it allows us to weigh our tongue as we travel, handy since we're now in our 277th day of this loop of the USA.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
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Is sway a result of tongue weight or is sway a result of the angle at which it connects to your ball?
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:46 AM   #15
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Tongue weight. Specifically not enough. A couple of years ago a young woman towing a flat bed trailer overturned in our driveway. Cause was a partial load of goods for a nursery...potted trees, plants, etc. The load was toward the rear of the trailer with too low a tongue weight. Neibors said when she got to about 40 mph the sway started big time and she was unable to recover. No human injuries but that's pure luck under the circumstances.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:45 AM   #16
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I"ve done what Norm and other have suggested . Put water in the fresh water tank ,leave some water in the grey water tank and drain the black water tank completely. I also have only one battery and one propane tank. The front closet is used for storing light weight things like toilet paper , paper towels ,dried food , and towels. Heavier objects are stored in tubs which travel on the rear bed and I built a clothes drawer beneath the rear bed for storage. When I started I could not lift the tongue by hand now I can slide it over or lift it if my trailer ball is slightly off when hooking up. It's possible to lower your tongue weight by stowing your gear properly and still not have sway problems
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #17
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Your tongue weight should be 12-15% of your total weight. Each trip it will change, that is why it is important to weigh before each trip. Tank weight can be effective, but I was told never to keep my black tank empty, once it dries, you will never get it clean.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wklose99 View Post
Is sway a result of tongue weight or is sway a result of the angle at which it connects to your ball?
Let's simplify this to the point that it needs to be "correct". Generally speaking, when you are loaded ready for towing the trailer should be level. If it's not exactly level, I would prefer it to be very slightly nose down, rather than tail down, but still, strive for level.
Second, you should have a tongue weight that is somewhere in the range of 10% to maybe 15% of the total gross weight of the trailer. As a general rule, "more tongue weight" ( staying within the range ) can make for a more stable tow, although it also loads more weight onto the back of the tow vehicle, which may approach overloading the rear axle of the TV.

My bet is with your rig, a level trailer, and let's just throw a number out there: 12% tongue weight will likely give you a good overall towing experience.

Inadequate tongue weight can make for a dangerous towing rig, as in sway. Seriously inadequate tongue weight, such as where the tongue is actually "negative" weight, can also make the trailer do a fast cyclic "tugging-pushing" action on the TV, which is very damaging to the driveline of the TV.
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #19
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Black tank

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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Your tongue weight should be 12-15% of your total weight. Each trip it will change, that is why it is important to weigh before each trip. Tank weight can be effective, but I was told never to keep my black tank empty, once it dries, you will never get it clean.
Jim
I was unaware of that problem with the black water tank . I always drain the tank of waste . rinse it out with fresh water , drain the tank again and then add about a 1/2 gallon of water with a little Pinesol . My choice of "completely" was probably a poor choice of words . I've had no problems so far and the tank appears to be clean . If you know a better method please let me know. I do know that if I leave the black tank full it adds considerably to my tongue weight
Thanks
Steve D
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Jim
I was unaware of that problem with the black water tank . I always drain the tank of waste . rinse it out with fresh water , drain the tank again and then add about a 1/2 gallon of water with a little Pinesol . My choice of "completely" was probably a poor choice of words . I've had no problems so far and the tank appears to be clean . If you know a better method please let me know. I do know that if I leave the black tank full it adds considerably to my tongue weight
Thanks
Steve D
In other words the waste is completely removed but you leave some residual liquid.
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