Torque value for wheel nuts - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-13-2013, 06:15 PM   #15
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The only hub centric, or as they are called hub piloted wheels that I've seen are on big trucks. We used torque sticks on a 1" drive air gun to tighten them. Torque sticks are also available for 1/2" air guns for use on automotive wheels. I never use an air gun for final torque on a trailer or car wheel, but do it by hand, no torque wrench, never had a problem. I'll use anti seize compound if the wheel fits tight on the center hub. I've had to hammer off way too many wheels. Many years ago an old timer told me "tighten the nuts until they talk" ( creaking noise). I wouldn't go by that method! Edit; just to clarify, hub piloted wheels don't have a tapered nut, the nut has a flat washer that sets against the wheel.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
The only hub centric, or as they are called hub piloted wheels that I've seen are on big trucks. .........
We used hub pilots on the light trucks that I worked on as an engineer. Wheel non-concentricity, as mounted, was / is a major source of "tire vibration" complaints. The down side is that the stupid things corrode on and you have to pry them off to change a flat. Anti seize compound helps a lot.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
The only hub centric, or as they are called hub piloted wheels that I've seen are on big trucks.
... plus essentially every car and light truck on the road. I do understand that light trailers are usually lug-centric, and medium-duty trucks may be as well.
I'm pretty sure my Ford F53 chassis motorhome has hub-centric wheels; four of the six are alloys.

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Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
We used torque sticks on a 1" drive air gun to tighten them. Torque sticks are also available for 1/2" air guns for use on automotive wheels.
I use these for my wheel nuts. I don't count on them for precise torque, but they avoid accidental over-torquing with an impact wrench, and are very handy.

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Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
W... just to clarify, hub piloted wheels don't have a tapered nut, the nut has a flat washer that sets against the wheel.
That's true for heavy vehicles, and even for my Toyota Sienna (due to the type of nut and seat which Toyota uses for alloy wheels), but almost all light vehicles have hub-centric wheels and tapered nut seats. Although my Sienna has flat seats and washers with alloys, the same vehicle when used with steel wheels has tapered seats and nuts.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
The only hub centric, or as they are called hub piloted wheels that I've seen are on big trucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
... plus essentially every car and light truck on the road. I do understand that light trailers are usually lug-centric, and medium-duty trucks may be as well.
So...where does that leave one who's putting (hub centric?) rims designed for a car on a trailer's "lug-centric" wheels??? That's what isn't clear to me.

Pete's post (repeated below) seems to indicate some difficulties with such a conversion......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Dumbleton View Post
My Dexter axle (5 on 4.5) uses lug nuts, with the studs remaining on the hubs -- My axle is a 2003, IIRC. Indeed, the angle of the nut or bolt head where it contacts the wheel is important because the wheels and hubs are LUG_CENTRIC, not HUB_CENTRIC.

As soon as one introduces a non-standard part, which I presume the alum wheels are, one has to be careful -- As Roger said, use an original part to get the thread and pitch and use a new wheel to get the contact angle right -- This is esp important with alum because the wrong contact angle may quickly wear and weaken the alum wheel -- This is not a problem in automotive wheels because they are usually HUB_CENTRIC.

Also, the torque of the nuts/bolts will have to be checked more often because for some reason, alum wheels tend to loosen much more easily than steel wheels, and if they get loose enuf to wallow out the holes, the wheel is scrap...

Francesca
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:44 AM   #19
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people put too much emphasis on lug centric wheels on a hub centric vehicle. It's worked for almost 100 years, there's nothing wrong with lug centric, as long as the nuts are torqued properly. The clamping force is not going to let that wheel move and break studs.

All these stories you hear of the torque being 5 lbs low and a wheel flying off are bs. The shop flat out didn't check them (ask me how I know).

I use anti-seize (threads only), snug them with the impact before setting it down, then final torque them on the ground. I believe the dealer not doing this was the issue with the wheel departing my pickup, as I checked the torque after I got it home, and it checked ok. I believe they had the nuts loose, set it on the ground, and then torqued them. That left the wheels not centered on the lugs, and they eventually shook loose. After the one wheel came off, lug nuts were loose on every other wheel.

If you don't use anti-seize, good luck. I replaced a handful of studs on my trailer when I got it, they were rusted solid. I learned my lesson. Also clean the hub flange well. If it's dirty and rusty, you're going to lose your torque when that crumbles.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
So...where does that leave one who's putting (hub centric?) rims designed for a car on a trailer's "lug-centric" wheels??? That's what isn't clear to me.
Since typical automotive hub-centric wheels do have tapered seats, they still work fine in lug-centric applications, such as typical light trailers... if they fit (bolt pattern, offset, centre hole size, etc). They won't be located as well as a hub-centric system, but that's true regardless of the wheel.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #21
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Dexter stopped making steel wheels in 2004 but for Dexter steel wheels the answer is 90# to 120# that is the same for my Jeep Liberty with aluminum wheels that uses the same 1/2" by 20 tpi lugs and nuts.
http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/600-8K_Service_Manual_3-13/Wheels_and_Tires_3-13.pdf
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:48 PM   #22
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Great Dexter link- thanks, Joe!

In addition to torque info, it may finally answer the age-old question of how much air pressure to use in ST trailer tires, at least when mounted on a Dexter axle: the max listed on the sidewall!?!
(Here quoting page 76)
Quote:
LT and ST tires: Use the capacity rating molded into the tire
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
Great Dexter link- thanks, Joe!

In addition to torque info, it may finally answer the age-old question of how much air pressure to use in ST trailer tires, at least when mounted on a Dexter axle: the max listed on the sidewall!?!
(Here quoting page 76)

Francesca
Capacity is different than pressure. They're saying to derate passenger tires by 10%, and lt's and st's don't have to. They specifically say to run the pressure the manufacturer recommends. Although, I'm still going to run mine at max.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Romas View Post
Dexter stopped making steel wheels in 2004 but for Dexter steel wheels the answer is 90# to 120# that is the same for my Jeep Liberty with aluminum wheels that uses the same 1/2" by 20 tpi lugs and nuts.
http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/614960...Tires_3-13.pdf
Notice that their chart says 50-75ftlb on the 13" wheels, and 90-120ftlb on the 14s. I would not much exceed 90 on the 14s since it is clearly adequate and you do want to be able to remove them alongside the road. Some cheap lug wrenches will bent at less than 120ftlbs.

My older brother, also a lifelong mechanic, taught me about torque specs,he said...
Tighten 'em 'til they break and then back off an eighth of a turn!
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #25
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Capacity is different than pressure.
Thanks, Jared- I read that wrong!

Francesca
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:59 PM   #26
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Smile Tips from Dexter

Here is a list of tips gleaned from the Dexter website. Notice that the wheels are the governing factor for wheel lug torque (#3):

Trailer Running Gear Tips
Tip #1: Always make sure the tires on your trailer are inflated to the proper air pressure as specified by the tire manufacturer.

Tip #2: Check wheel fastener torque frequently. Each time a wheel is removed and re-mounted, the lug nuts should be checked and re-tightened after ten (10) miles, twenty five (25) miles and fifty (50) miles and periodically thereafter.

Tip #3: Use the proper wheel fastener and torque range as specified by the wheel manufacturer. Excessive torque can permanently damage the wheel while insufficient torque can result in stud failure.

Tip #4: Remember to inspect and service wheel bearings regularly as stated in your Operation & Maintenance Service Manual.

Tip #5: Use the proper bearing adjustment method as stated in your Operation & Maintenance Service Manual to assure reliable, long life performance.

Tip #6: Wheels and tires must be properly matched to each other to ensure safe, reliable performance.

Tip #7: Do not exceed the capacity of your trailer's running gear. Overloading can seriously degrade the life of the various components, result in unsafe braking and may lead to catastrophic failure.

Tip #8: When using after-market wheels, make sure that they fit properly and that the wheel studs are long enough to ensure proper thread engagement.

Tip #9: Remember to have your tires rotated and balanced according to the tire manufacturer's recommendations.

Tip #10: Check your brakes before every use to make sure they are functioning properly.

Tip #11: It is very important to pull your trailer so that it is running level. If the hitch is too high or too low, the trailer axle(s) may be unevenly loaded and can result in either a tire or axle failure.

Tip #12: Inspect your emergency breakaway devices to make sure they are in good working order before each use.

Tip #13: When loading your trailer, make sure enough weight is being carried on the hitch to ensure proper weight distribution and good handling.

Tip #14: Never fix an air leak in your wheel by putting a tube in the tire. The only safe solution for a leaky wheel is to replace it.

Tip #15: Support the back of the trailer at the ramps when loading up equipment or vehicles to prevent overloading the rear axle.

Tip #16: Remember to use recommended safety tools, personal protection, and procedures when servicing your trailer.

Tip #17: Follow the trailer manufacturer's guidelines for lifting and supporting trailer when servicing running gear. Never use the axle or suspension as a jack point to lift the trailer.

Tip #18: Use caution when servicing brakes since, some lining materials can contain asbestos.

Tip #19: Remember to lubricate the moving parts in your brake per the manufacturer's recommendations. Proper maintenance will prevent them from seizing up. Do not allow grease or oil to contaminate the linings, magnet, or drum surfaces.

Tip #20: The Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) of your running gear is determined by the lowest rated component in the assembly. The capacity of the wheel, tire, axle, brake, springs/rubber and hub are all considered.

Tip #21: The location of the load on a trailer will affect the ride characteristics. Too little load on the hitch can cause the trailer to wander or sway. Too much hitch load can overload your towing vehicle's suspension.

Tip #22: If you experience uneven tire wear, it is important to note the type and nature of the wear pattern in order to determine the cause. Contact your tire dealer to assist in troubleshooting the problem.

Tip #23: Spread axle mounting will lend support to frame structure but will result in more tire wear from side scrubbing when negotiating sharp turns or corners.

Tip #24: Axles should be spaced far enough apart to allow a minimum of 1" clearance between the tires. More space would be required if tire chains are to be used.

Tip #25: Widest possible track and axle mounting provides the best design for stability, especially when hauling high center of gravity loads.

Tip #26: Bump clearance is the distance from the top of a leaf spring mounted axle to the bottom of the frame. If this distance is too small the axle may come in contact with the frame and result in damage to axle. If the space is too large, you could prematurely break your spring.

Tip #27: Make sure there is enough clearance around the sides and top of the tires to prevent the tire from rubbing on the frame or other trailer structure.

Tip #28: Oil lubricated bearings are best suited for trailers that are used continuously. Grease will provide better protection for bearings during long periods of storage.

Tip #29: Axles fitted with Dual wheels should never be operated with only one wheel in place or with one of the two tires flat. Doing so can seriously overstress the wheel bearings and result in bearing failure.

Tip #30: Mixing aluminum wheels and steel dual wheels will result in galvanic corrosion between the two dissimilar metals. This corrosion can cause wheels to loosen and possibly result in stud failure and wheel run-off.

Tip #31: Replace brake shoes if the linings have been contaminated with oil or grease, are less that 1/16" thick, or are abnormally scored or gouged. Minor cracks in linings are not detrimental unless chunks of the linings are missing.

Tip #32: Remember that your new brake shoes need to be burnished or "seated in". This process may take quite a few stops to get the shoes fully worn in before maximum brake performance can be achieved.

Taken from:

Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - Running Gear Tips
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:49 AM   #27
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RE:Tip#2:
It's 1200 miles to Sebring, so I guess next February I'm going to have to carry a torque wrench and budget an extra 40 hours or so for checking the lug torque periodically every 25miles. could be dangerous along some highways.
Oh and I can't forget the TV , eventhough I'm determined to drive it 'til the wheels fall off!
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:32 PM   #28
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RE:Tip#2:
It's 1200 miles to Sebring, so I guess next February I'm going to have to carry a torque wrench and budget an extra 40 hours or so for checking the lug torque periodically every 25miles. could be dangerous along some highways.
Oh and I can't forget the TV , eventhough I'm determined to drive it 'til the wheels fall off!
If the lawyer recommends it, who are you to quibble? Raz
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