Torsion suspension

[Lionel]

Hi,
I am new here. I was referred her by a helpfull guy from Brandon named Bruce. I live in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba.
I purchased e a 1972 Boler 4 years ago and have been working on it myself to get it to where my wife and I really enjoy the camper. I am a retired office worker and have come to a problem that has me stumped.
We took a run 2 weeks ago and found that we had worn the tires right down to the wire on both tires. It was on the outside of each tire. The tires were on the trailer when I bought it so I do not know how old they were.
We put new tires on it and continued about 1500 kms home.
As we look at it now, there is a bit of wear again on the outside of each tire. My wife say that as she looks at it, it is a bit pigeon-toed. I put a straight edge on each wheel and measured six inches in front and 6 inches behind the tire and there is about an inch difference (with the front being shorter). I do not know if it is the suspension or the axle. I did not have trouble the first 3 years.

Here is my question - Can the torsion suspension go out of line and can it be fixed.
I have contacted Cal Tire, Fountain Tire, the local RV dealer etc about the problem and no one seems interested in helping me.

Can someone give me an idea about where to start please.

Thanks a bunch
Lionel

[RLP]

I wonder if the bearings on the spindles are badly worn or loose causing a toe in/out?? Surely you would hear and odd noise if they were loose. You might try towing the Boler for awhile, pull over and stop and grab the spindle where it protrudes the outside of the rim. Is it hot??

I have never heard of this happening but the axle beam under the trailer should be at a near perfect perpendicular position to the trailer frame so the wheels are tracking correctly. Maybe something moved?? Can't see it though because the original beams were welded to the frame.

I would suggest locating a trailer company in your area, one that builds/repairs utility, flatdecks, travel RV's, etc. They should be able to do a thorough inspection.

Let us know what you find out.

[floyd]

Tow-in should be 0-1/8th inch.
Normal wear should tend toward tow-out and negative camber, either condition would wear to inside edge of the tire.
Sounds like a bent axle housing. You can check it, but (sorry to say) most likely you will need a new axle. The good news is ... they really aren't that expensive.
it's not likely bent spindles or loose and worn bearings for two reasons,
1]they would cause a breakdown in a short distance.
2]worn or loose bearings would cause tend toward tow-out.

[Darwin Maring]

Check with Dexter Axle for prices.
http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/produ...flex_11-06.pdf

[Andrew Gibbens]

Flexiride kindly supply a geometry drawing for their torsion axles - sorry if it's a bit big, but you want to be able to read it:

[Lionel]

As we are older, we stop every hour or so. I learned a long time ago to feel the hubs for heat. I done the bearings last year and back them every year.
I contacted a suspension place in Brandon and they are very busy but will see me in a month. They have a place that can supply an axle.
I got a reply from Scamp but I did not understand the specs they sent.
I sent an email to Dexter.
This is really helpfull.
I am going to try to post a picture of the suspension. Also a picture of the camper inside and out. It was not pretty when I started and I have put a lot of work into it.
Thanks again.
Lionel

[RLP]

Lionel - Your Boler looks great!! Can you post more pictures especially of the interior? What is on your sink/stove countertop? Type of flooring? Any thing else - load us up with pictures. Thanks.

[nlife]

Your Boler looks great! I've got a lot of work to do on mine before it gets anywhere close to looking like to yours.

I recently had to do the axle on mine. The PO had managed to bend both spindles. Like most most people on here I went with brakes since I had to do it all anyways. Hope yours is a simple fix.

[Donna D.]

Lionel, you need to know that torsion axles "typically" only last 15-20 years. After that the rubber gets hard and dies (hard ride, goes through tires). And YES, there are a few people running really old axles... but that's not the usual. I'm betting getting a new axle (with BRAKES) will solve the problem.

I wish I could tell you, it was easily fixed with balancing the tires... but, I won't. There are several good places for a new axle... Dexter, Scamp trailer manufactuer, Outback (Trillium Outback), Escape Trailer Industries, Fibreglass RV Parts, Repairs, and Service by Paul Neumeister, etc. Tell us EXACTLY what you need or where you're located... we will help if we can.

[Harvey]

Originally Posted by Lionel

As we are older, we stop every hour or so. I learned a long time ago to feel the hubs for heat. I done the bearings last year and back them every year.
I contacted a suspension place in Brandon and they are very busy but will see me in a month. They have a place that can supply an axle.
I got a reply from Scamp but I did not understand the specs they sent.
I sent an email to Dexter.
This is really helpfull.
I am going to try to post a picture of the suspension. Also a picture of the camper inside and out. It was not pretty when I started and I have put a lot of work into it.
Thanks again.
Lionel

Lionel, your trailer really does look nice, you've done a great job. The pic of your suspension looks to me like it ain't original. Dunno how the Boler axle was originally mounted but in your pic, it appears that something has been cut (torched?) off the axle itself where the current 'angle' bracket is welded, leaving a rather messy joint. That may possibly be where your excess toe-in comes from? On the upside, the mating mounting bracket that is welded to the trailer chassis gives you a perfect mounting point for a new axle using either a side mount or top mount bracket (both are described/pictured on the Dexter website). Does your trailer have leading or trailing torsion arms? Appears you have maybe a 10 degree up angle arm?? You can order a new Dexter #9 (2.2K rating) with 7" electric brakes to fit your trailer's mounting point configuration, with either up or down angle, & either leading or trailing arms. A bolt-on mounting bracket kit adds only a few bucks to the price & is well worth it.

[Roy in TO]

Lionel has a bolt on configuration now. It looks weird. I'm not sure if that is because of lens distortion or things are actually bent. Perhaps the bracket needs to be reinforced as per the instructions on Dexter for a C channel frame.

[Harvey]

On further examination of Lionel's pic of his suspension (full size) I don't believe I'd trust that thing for another mile of towing.

It appears the original mounting bracket (which actually surrounded the axle tube) was torched off completely, unless only the rear(?) portion of the bracket was removed & there's still welded material on the unseen side of the axle (possible as it appears part of the original bracket may still be attached on underside of the axle??) and a new 'angle iron' bracket was welded on with just a single weld on top of the tube (the weld can't be more'n about 2 1/4" in length & has to support the new axle mounting point as well as withstand any torque applied on/by the torsion arm when the wheel/tire encounters any road obstacle such as pot holes, curbs, bumps, etc. If only part of the original bracket was removed this may not be as unstable as it appears, but still left the axle tube weakened.

Additionally, it appears that when the original bracket was torched off, the torch actually cut into the axle tube part of the way around, weakening the axle tube & probably doing severe damage to or even destroying the rubber 'flex' material that provides suspension for the torsion arm. This could possibly result in the 'toe-in' condition as the torsion arm spindle may no longer be 'square' inside the tube. I also see what appears to be some kind of 'residue' has exuded from the axle tube where the torsion arm spindle emerges from the tube.

Also, it appears that the lower, horizontal part of the upper welded on mounting bracket has bent upward from either stress or simply the weight of carrying the trailer.

Here's my notated copy of Loinel's suspension pic -

[Roy in TO]

I'm thinking along the same lines but would like a better picture to start with.

[Lionel]

Thanks for all the input. I am ok at crafty things but the axle is beyond me. I do however hope that if someone has more ideas that they will share them.
RLP - The countertop and the table are butcher blok style laminated pine (stained and finished). I took the stove, sink and fresh water tank out and put them in storage. We use a dining tent for old style camping.
I am going to try to post a few more pictures of the inside.
Harvey - The torsion bar points forward (in front of the axle).
Roy - I am posting another picture on the right wheel. Hope this helps.

Starting monday, I am going to contact some trailer people and local trailer manufacturers here in Manitoba to get a new axle (the whole assembly) and install it for me. If they have the trailer and the manufacturers listed above they should be able to get it right.

Lionel

[Harvey]

You have a leading arm torsion axle Lionel, as appears to be the norm in most of the older Boler, Scamp trailers. My 1984 Scamp 13 had the original axle like that which I replaced last year with a new Dexter #9 Torflex with brakes & a 22.5 degree down angle, leading arm. Raised my towing height over 4" which I wanted. Your second pic shows that most of the original mounting bracket may still be present (I'd like to see a clear pic of the other side of the axle - the same wheel from other direction). The latest pic shows a better angle of the part that was torched off & it appears the flame may not have gotten into the axle tube itself; still that much heat is bound to have had a detrimental effect on the rubber inside the tube, as evidenced by the substance between the end of the tube & the torsion arm. I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here & say, IMO, that's more'n likely a primary cause of your toe-in. I'd sure have that looked at by a professional trailer builder/repair shop before I did any more distance towing.

I agree with Roy in TO, I'd like to see a couple of good clear pix of that axle mounting configuration both front & rear and/or the opposite end of the axle. It has obviously been 're-engineered' at some point & probably by someone who didn't know (or maybe didn't care?) much about the integrity of the rubber suspension...

[Lionel]

Harvey,
#79 is a front to back view of the wheel on the door side of the camper.
#80 is a back to front view of the other side. (truck driver's side)
#81 is a front to back view of the other side. (truck driver's side)
Hope this is what you asked for.
Lionel

[Andrew Gibbens]

Wow, that 'damage' is symmetrical so I guess somebody did it intentionally, but why? Maybe trying to bend the axle tube to correct its condition?

It certainly looks like replacement is the best action.

[Harvey]

Lionel, those new pix just confirm what I said yesterday. I believe someone has deliberately cut (torched) away the rear section of each lower mounting bracket (the bracket should surround the square axle tube). I've no clue as to why such would be done but, in so doing it is my opinion that the rubber inserts in the axle that provide flex in the suspension were destroyed or severely damaged by heat from the torch as evidenced by the substance that has apparently 'squeezed' out of the axle tube at each end where the torsion arm stub protrudes. This may well have allowed the torsion arm stub to assume a 'skewed' position inside the square tube, causing or contributing to your toe-in condition. While probably not as immediately dangerous as I first thought yesterday (I don't believe the axle will separate from the chassis), that much toe-in (I'm still not clear whether you have a total of 1" toe-in or 1" on each tire??) will be very destructive of your tires & may (probably?) cause other stress on the 'running gear' of the trailer. Assuming the axle is otherwise 'square' with the coupler, while you're towing each tire is 'scrubbing' rubber off the outside part of the tire tread with each rotation.

The more I look at your pix, the more it appears to me that your mounting configuration may be original, save the 'surgery' on the rear of each lower mounting bracket. The upper brackets appear to be a 'factory' installation as I can see no visible welds or other mechanical fastening devices. I've never seen that set-up before but as I mentioned previously it's a perfect set-up to allow easy replacement of your axle with a new bolt-on unit that has brakes. Would be a good opportunity to change the torsion arm start angle also, depending on how low your trailer sets/tows. Betcha with that suspension damage you don't have a lot of clearance between the top of your tires & the underside of the fender well.

Also, I'd be surprised (shocked??) if your suspension could pass the 'jump' test. My guess is that the only 'flex' you're getting from your suspension is the sidewalls of the tires. An easy check is to lie down in a position where you can watch the hub end of the torsion arm, have someone (a relatively heavy person, 200# or more) stand inside the trailer directly (more or less) over the axle & jump up & down several times. With a 'good' axle you'll see the hub end of the torsion arm move upward (flex) each time the jumper's weight comes down on the trailer floor, & return to its normal resting position. I'm guessing you'll have little if any flex other than the tire sidewalls.

Here's a pic of the old axle on my '84 Scamp before I replaced it with a new Dexter #9 w/7" electric brakes & 22.5 degree down angle leading arm, & the same side with the new axle installed -