Tow Capacity RAV 4 - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-11-2015, 09:57 AM   #29
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Mere Technicality ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
(Clip) "The thing is, any decent defense lawyer will introduce evidence as to the vehicle's physical capabilities, which would trump a mere technicality based upon drive train shortfall."
Somehow I really doubt if GM. Ford, Chrysler, Subaru or any of the many other auto manufacturers selling in the U.S. would just sit back and let anyone overturn as much as a single word in their owners manuals without first defending it with their substantial legal teams.

Overturning/obviating anything in an owners manual even remotely related to safety would put everything that they put into their manuals into question.

I can't even imagine a suit in which an individual owner could take on their defense teams, short of some sort of a class action suit.

I once had to appear in a wrongful death suit concerning a consumer that ignored a tire recall. Even though they were not even named in the suit, Firestone had 5 lawyers present as "Friends of the Court".
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:43 AM   #30
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Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
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IMHO - Modern engine technology may have rendered many of the old
ideas about number of engine cylinders and cubic inches of displacement
obsolete.

With the variable cylinder management in his new V6 Odyssey, I think that
(IIRC) Norm has found surprising fuel economy that is at least close
(in many cases) to his previous 4cyl CRV. (Feel free to chime in on
this Norm. )

With the turbocharging in my 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L I4 Ecoboost engine,
I have roughly the same 240hp as the 2012 Ford Escape 3.0L V6. I also
have better fuel economy and (IIRC) equivalent or better torque.

Our 2011 Honda CRV 2.4L A5, had 180hp at nearly 7000rpm and had
roughly 170 ft/lbs of torque. By comparison, our 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L
has less cubic inches of displacement (2.0 vs 2.4) but it has 240hp
(60hp more than the larger CRV engine) at lower RPM and about
270 ft/lbs of torque (about 100 more ft/lbs of torque than the CRV).

What matters most to me in a tow vehicle is brand/model reliability,
hp@rpm, ft/lbs-torque@rpm, the type (M/A) and number of gears in
the transmission, frame/suspension cabability, and the aerodynamic
drag related to frontal area and vehicle shape. If the tow vehicle will
also be an "every day driver" and get lots of non-towing miles, then
fuel economy and ease of parking and maneuvering will also be
important.

Our Ford Escape 2.0L I4 Ecoboost (with factory tow package) is rated
at 3500 lbs tow and 350 lbs tongue. If a 16/17 foot trailer fits within
those limits, I would not hesitate to tow it with my 4 cyl Escape.

Just my 2 cents worth and maybe not even worth that.
As always, YMMV.

Ray
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:59 AM   #31
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Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdickens View Post
IMHO - Modern engine technology may have rendered many of the old ideas about number of engine cylinders and cubic inches of displacement
obsolete.

With the variable cylinder management in his new V6 Odyssey, I think that
(IIRC) Norm has found surprising fuel economy that is at least close
(in many cases) to his previous 4cyl CRV. (Feel free to chime in on
this Norm. )

With the turbocharging in my 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L I4 Ecoboost engine,
I have roughly the same 240hp as the 2012 Ford Escape 3.0L V6. I also
have better fuel economy and (IIRC) equivalent or better torque.

Our 2011 Honda CRV 2.4L A5, had 180hp at nearly 7000rpm and had
roughly 170 ft/lbs of torque. By comparison, our 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L
has less cubic inches of displacement (2.0 vs 2.4) but it has 240hp
(60hp more than the larger CRV engine) at lower RPM and about
270 ft/lbs of torque (about 100 more ft/lbs of torque than the CRV).

Ray
Ray,

As you, Floyd and another friend of mine have attested the Ford Escape makes a good tow vehicle. If I wasn't so stuck on Hondas I might have bought one.

Engines are better than ever in all kinds of ways. The Variable Cylinder Management works very well and does give us better overall mileage than the CRV, judging by the 10,000 miles we've driven so far. By the time we get home from Newfoundland we'll have an even better view.

As I've stated before my only concern is long term reliability, for us that means 250,000 miles and 10 years. The reality is that the Odyssey's engine is more complex than the CRV. Time will be our test on that score. THe reality is now we're driving with a 3-6 cylinder engine, most of the time it seems to be in the 3 cylinder mode an indicator of how little horsepower is needed to move down the road.

Great to meet you guys.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:43 AM   #32
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Just a reminder... The OP did not ask how many cylinders he needed to tow a 16' Scamp but whether it is okay to exceed the manufacturer's 1500 pound tow limit on his vehicle. Given that 2250 pounds is on the low end for a loaded 16'er, we're talking about exceeding the limit by 50% or more.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:43 AM   #33
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Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
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Norm -

It was great to meet you and Ginny too!

My wife still drives her CRV every day and loves it. For our Scamp13
trailer, the CRV is still a decent tow vehicle. Since it has the automatic
transmission (and D3 lockout), I think that your manual transmission
CRV was probably a slightly better overall tow vehicle.

If we eventually quit supporting some of the local activities of our
grandchildren and were to consider spending longer durations (months)
on the road, we've realized that we might(?) want a 16/17 foot trailer.

So, when we traded my older and higher-mileage "work car", my wife
suggested getting a vehicle that would allow us to tow a 16ft trailer.
Having driven full size vans and minivans in the recent past, my
wife suggested that she would not really want to do that again and
would prefer an SUV (or perhaps a small king-cab truck?).

My daughter and son-in-law drive Toyotas and like them. Like Hondas,
the Toyotas seem to enjoy an excellent reliability record.

My cousin retired from the Ford manufacturing plant in KC and gave
me lots of insight into the Ecoboost engines. Like my cousin, I was
fairly proud that Ford neither needed or accepted any "bail out" money.
Partially for that reason, for an "American" car company, Ford was
pretty high on my list. We will have to see how it works out over time.


Ray
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:11 PM   #34
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Name: Norm and Ginny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdickens View Post
Norm -

It was great to meet you and Ginny too!

My wife still drives her CRV every day and loves it. For our Scamp13
trailer, the CRV is still a decent tow vehicle. Since it has the automatic
transmission (and D3 lockout), I think that your manual transmission
CRV was probably a slightly better overall tow vehicle.

If we eventually quit supporting some of the local activities of our
grandchildren and were to consider spending longer durations (months)
on the road, we've realized that we might(?) want a 16/17 foot trailer.

So, when we traded my older and higher-mileage "work car", my wife
suggested getting a vehicle that would allow us to tow a 16ft trailer.
Having driven full size vans and minivans in the recent past, my
wife suggested that she would not really want to do that again and
would prefer an SUV (or perhaps a small king-cab truck?).

My daughter and son-in-law drive Toyotas and like them. Like Hondas,
the Toyotas seem to enjoy an excellent reliability record.

My cousin retired from the Ford manufacturing plant in KC and gave
me lots of insight into the Ecoboost engines. Like my cousin, I was
fairly proud that Ford neither needed or accepted any "bail out" money.
Partially for that reason, for an "American" car company, Ford was
pretty high on my list. We will have to see how it works out over time.


Ray
I to was impressed by Ford's actions and respect their management.

Our CRV was probably our favorite vehicle. However, the Odyssey is a lot quieter than the CRV and generally more comfortable to drive. The Odyssey seating has the comfort of our former motor home.

The interior volume is huge, the variable cylinder management allows very good mileage and when you step on it, the engine is powerful. It lacks the clearance of the CRV and the 4wd ability, rarely used but handy on occasion.

We have never owned a mini-van before... a new adventure of sorts
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:29 PM   #35
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Name: Ray
Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
Posts: 504
Jon .... and Bert,

I would suggest that Bert start off with a 13 ft trailer.
(FGRV resale values are generally high and he shouldn't lose much
money if he upgrades to a Scamp 16 when he has a more capable
tow vehicle.)

When we first purchased our Scamp 13 L1 (with 54" bed), we had
the same manufacturer's 1500 lb tow rating and I had to deliberately
be fairly careful with our Scamp 13 options to try to stay within that
guideline. (Even the 13 foot Casitas that I looked at generally seemed
to come with a bathroom that pushed us over [or way too close]
to our weight limit.)

As the lady below found out, with some options, even a Scamp 13
can exceed the 1500 lb rating.
13' Scamp Weight
13' Scamp Weight

IMHO - A Scamp 16 would likely be heavier than Bert expects.

To get the 54" inch bed that is in our Scamp13, he would have to go to
the Scamp16 Deluxe with the slightly heavier(?) and more expensive
wood interior.

Bert -
In the link below are pictures of the interior of our Scamp 13 that I
configured for lighter weight. I think that we got most of the options
except for the front bathroom, AC, wood interior, furnace, and awning.
Scamp Full Size Bed = Smaller Table Size
Scamp Full Size Bed = Smaller Table Size

Everyone has different wants/needs/restrictions for their camping
experience and their rigs. What we came up with may or may not
meet your requirements/expectations at all.

It is just food for thought.
As always, YMMV.

Ray
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:49 AM   #36
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Since the OP's question has been thoroughly discussed, this thread is being closed now.
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