Tow Speed

[mcbrew]

Floyd, I have a lot of respect for your choice of tow vehicle. I think you misinterpreted something I said as a personal attack against you. This was not my intent.

Was it the "car vs. truck" comment? I was making a reference to large trucks, such as F250s and the like. Many people seem to think that those sorts of trucks are the tool for the job when it comes to towing a camper that was designed to be towed by a VW bug. I find that somewhat humorous. If someone likes towing with a truck, that is fine. Some suggest that it is necessary, and that is not the case.

If it is something else that I said that got under your skin please let me know. I don't want to hurt any feelings around here.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

Floyd, I have a lot of respect for your choice of tow vehicle. I think you misinterpreted something I said as a personal attack against you. This was not my intent.

Was it the "car vs. truck" comment? I was making a reference to large trucks, such as F250s and the like. Many people seem to think that those sorts of trucks are the tool for the job when it comes to towing a camper that was designed to be towed by a VW bug. I find that somewhat humorous. If someone likes towing with a truck, that is fine. Some suggest that it is necessary, and that is not the case.

If it is something else that I said that got under your skin please let me know. I don't want to hurt any feelings around here.

First let me say that I saw no personal attack and I took no offense.
Face to face, you would see that in an instant.

I get what I think is the best mileage/tow vehicle ratio using the Escape at moderate speeds usually around 58-60MPH.
I do this to save on travel expenses, not for political reasons.
That is also why I have a Scamp 13. I just wanted to say that I don't need a $3 per gallon tax to be responsible, since I am already orders of magnitude more responsible than those who would levy it.
I, like you, would rather pay for a motel than drive a TV which was no fun when unhitched, or cost more for gas than the price of a motel.
It would be sad if we had to agree at every turn to remain friends.
Those who can't bear a challege to their position,never really had one.
Cheers, Floyd

[Tezha]

It seems like ages ago I started this thread, but it wasn't. I have found in two short weeks that 60 vs 65 saves me gas in my situation. (actual mileage may vary) (always wanted to say that!) I think I will stick with that for now. Thanks for all the great information on this one, I learned a lot, like always.

[mcbrew]

you would see that in an instant.

Yes... So much is lost/missing over the internets.

It would be sad if we had to agree at every turn to remain friends.
Those who can't bear a challege to their position,never really had one.

Well put. I don't feel the need to agree... I just don't want to be misunderstood. I certainly don't want to offend.

On a side note, I don't think we need a $3 per gallon tax on fuel. However, if you take for granted that our various levels of government need a certain amount of tax dollars to maintain roads, then it would seem that they will need to raise gas taxes due to the her fuel economy standards that are surely to come. Many will disagree, but it is something to ponder.

[Darwin Maring]

On the why a truck for tug, 5th wheel. Although some many years ago they made a 5r that attached to the roof of a VW Beatle and someone posted a picture of it on this site.

I get my best MPG at 60MPH but loose 2MPG at 75 (2007 Silverado Crew Cab with the multi fuel E85 V 8) that I have never been able to find E85 for in the first place.

E85 - Our Government going green for us.

[mcbrew]

E85, car companies cheating the CAFE standards.

The thing that cracked me up was the long line of people at the only E85 pump in town when gas was $4/gal and E85 was about $3.75. I bet most of them never stopped to notice that they got 30% lower fuel economy with that E85 and actually spent more per mile.

Back to your comment on 5th wheel campers... yes, you need a truck for that, obviously. I was referring to 13' eggs. Again, I don't have a problem with people towing them with trucks... I just have a problem with people saying you NEED a truck to tow one.

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

As has been said many things effect best mpg and tow speed. However there's another or two to consideration when towing. ST tires are generally rated for 65 mph max. Also many states have a maximum towing speed of 55 mph. In our case here in Oregon it's not well published, but is in the laws. California posts maximum towing speed. To avoid speeding tickets check the state laws you'll be towing in or do as I do always tow between 55 mph and 60 mph. I like to stay closer to 55.

Byron

Trailer tires are rated for 65mph max. I would not feel comfortable exceeding the tire rating or even running at or near the maximum rating. As the speeds go higher so does the heat generated. That is the main reason that I replaced my tires with light truck tires, the speed rating is 115mph on them. I will only drive at a fraction of that speed and also only a fraction of the maximum load rating. If you are using tires at close to their maximum speed and/or load ratings, I would expect many more tire failures than if used at 50 to 60% of the maximum rating. Maybe that is why we hear of so many trailer tire failures.

Andy

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Roger C H

Air resistance factor goes up as the SQUARE of the speed.

40 mph = 1600

for a 125% increase in speed you pay a with a 156% increase in drag

50 mph = 2500

for a 120% increase in speed, you pay with a 144% increase in drag.

60 mph = 3600

and compared to 40 mph for a 150% increase in speed you get a 225% increase in drag.

Which is why auto mfgrs try to keep their air resistance figures low.

Roger, you are correct, above about 30mph air resistance is the major factor in gas mileage. A fiberglass egg shape may not be perfect but it is much more aerodynamic than typically shaped trailers built with flat walls. However all the accessories that are frequently added to the outside of a egg, like awnings, roof AC, very large roof vent covers, etc can really increase the air resistance. Even things like refrigerator vents and door handles that stick out make a difference. Look at the auto industry, to improve aerodynamics they have gone to flush mounted door handles and smooth rounded shapes. I remember reading years ago that an empty roof rack on top of a car can reduce highway mileage by 2-5%.
Andy

[Mike Reynolds]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

E85, car companies cheating the CAFE standards.

The thing that cracked me up was the long line of people at the only E85 pump in town when gas was $4/gal and E85 was about $3.75. I bet most of them never stopped to notice that they got 30% lower fuel economy with that E85 and actually spent more per mile.

Back to your comment on 5th wheel campers... yes, you need a truck for that, obviously. I was referring to 13' eggs. Again, I don't have a problem with people towing them with trucks... I just have a problem with people saying you NEED a truck to tow one.

Jesse,
I tow a 17 ft Fiber Stream with a Ford F250 long bed. It is also equipped to tow a gooseneck or haul a camper should I so choose. I have solar panels on the camper shell rather than the trailer so I can reach to tilt and clean them. I never have to use shore power or a generator. I also have a 55 gallon water tank and pump in the pickup and spare wastewater capacity. I carry tools and hardware to cover almost any breakdown situation. I can dry camp for two weeks with no external energy or material inputs. Everything I own can go with me. I am about as self contained as one can get because, for me, I want there to be more to the camping experience than trotting between power/water sources.

This is why I use a truck. I average 13.5 mpg towing and never exceed 55 as that's the law here, not to mention being what's responsible. When I am home I drive a Ford Fiesta and have a blast getting +/- 40 gpm.

Just wanted to point out that those of us using full sized pickups for TVs can have good reasons for doing so, not just preference.

Regards,
Mike

[Alf S.]

Originally Posted by Tezha

Is there a speed that gives the best MPG or does it depend on the TV.

Hi: Tezha...It's all relative...and you know what relatives can be like!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Mike Reynolds

Jesse,
I tow a 17 ft Fiber Stream with a Ford F250 long bed. It is also equipped to tow a gooseneck or haul a camper should I so choose. I have solar panels on the camper shell rather than the trailer so I can reach to tilt and clean them. I never have to use shore power or a generator. I also have a 55 gallon water tank and pump in the pickup and spare wastewater capacity. I carry tools and hardware to cover almost any breakdown situation. I can dry camp for two weeks with no external energy or material inputs. Everything I own can go with me. I am about as self contained as one can get because, for me, I want there to be more to the camping experience than trotting between power/water sources.

This is why I use a truck. I average 13.5 mpg towing and never exceed 55 as that's the law here, not to mention being what's responsible. When I am home I drive a Ford Fiesta and have a blast getting +/- 40 gpm.

Just wanted to point out that those of us using full sized pickups for TVs can have good reasons for doing so, not just preference.

Regards,
Mike

Sounds like you use your truck to the fullest!

[mcbrew]

The absolute best speed to tow your camper is ZERO:

[Doug Mager]

LOL, to quote someone,
....I CAN'T DO 55!!!
(unless, that is, while we're draggin our Trillium, LOL)

[Bill F.]

Originally Posted by Tezha

Is there a speed that gives the best MPG or does it depend on the TV.

The speed issue has been well covered but I've had very good results with decreasing our wind resistance with a deflector mounted on my van roof racks. Two years ago I got 12.3 MPG average over 6,000 miles between Toronto and Brownsville Tx. Last winter with the deflector added I averaged 15.4 mpg(about 25% improvement) for the same trip. I made the deflector from used plywood and painted it for a total of about $25, thinking that if it didn't work I could use it for a campfire. Bill

[Alf S.]

Hi: All... Seems that we've put this issue to bed many times!!! Here's a pic of me getting the best fuel mileage that I can.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Alf S.

Hi: All... Seems that we've put this issue to bed many times!!! Here's a pic of me getting the best fuel mileage that I can.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

Alf,

I think you may be getting the worst mileage possible in that picture.

Your rig is not moving = 0 miles...
Your grill is operating so you are using fuel (maybe a water heater too)...
MPG = miles divided by gallons...
Since the miles are zero, and zero divided by any number is zero, you are getting 0 mpg or the worst mileage possible! ;-)

Andy

[Alf S.]

Hi: Andy B...But I get better sausage that way!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Davie B]

Maybe this has already been covered; but if so, I couldn't find it. I've read that trailer tires are rated for a maximum 65 MPH tow speed. Our Lite House has 8 inch tires. Does the 65 MPH rule still apply with the tiny wheels?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Davie B

Maybe this has already been covered; but if so, I couldn't find it. I've read that trailer tires are rated for a maximum 65 MPH tow speed. Our Lite House has 8 inch tires. Does the 65 MPH rule still apply with the tiny wheels?

oooo doubtful. but then again I make it a habit to tow 55mph and my Scamp has 15" wheels. I'm more interested in better fuel economy than getting someplace 20 minutes sooner. YMMV

Why not check with the tire manufacturer just to be certain. If it was my trailer, I'd want to know. And then please post your results here

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Davie B

Maybe this has already been covered; but if so, I couldn't find it. I've read that trailer tires are rated for a maximum 65 MPH tow speed. Our Lite House has 8 inch tires. Does the 65 MPH rule still apply with the tiny wheels?

The 4.80x8 tires that I just looked at say maximum 55 mph on the sidewall, but with small wheels it is not just the tires that may limit speed. The bearings spin faster because the wheels have a smaller circumference. For example at 65 mph my 14 in tires rotate at 795 rpm. Those 8 inch tires would be rotating at 1410 rpm at the same 65 mph. You would have to slow down to 37 mph to have the 8 inch wheels spin at the same speed as the 14 inch wheels do at 65 mph.

I personally would not feel comfortable using any tire to it's maximum rated capacity for either speed or load. I am sure the tire makers include a factor of safety in their maximum ratings, but common sense tells me that a tire used to 50% or 75% of it's maximum will last longer and have a lower chance of a blow out than a tire used to 90% or 100% maximum capacity. That was one of the main reasons I went with light truck tires rated at 115 mph and a maximum load more than double what I will place on the tires.

Andy