Tow vehicle selection

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Raspy

But I draw the line on buying anything just so I can re-sell it later. Come on. Buy your truck to match your needs, not the needs of an imaginary person you'll never meet years from now. Besides, if it works for you, it will work for someone else too. I have never agreed with buying something based on the idea I can re-sell it later. Makes me wonder...............how many things are being bought right now, by complete strangers, that will be fit my needs, years from now. Who are those generous souls that are looking out for my future by buying things and storing them for me?

John, I guess it depends on how much money you are prepared to lose. Nobody and I mean nobody wants a 2wd here in Vermont. Ice, snow, mountains. You buy a 2wd pickup, if you can find one, you either own it forever or donate it.

[mary and bob]

three years ago in October, just before heading south for the winter, we got a great buy on a Casita SD17 from friends. Did not have a tow vehicle that would handle it at the time. After a very frustrating search the only truck I found that was decent was a 2012 Ram 1500 that only had 17,000 miles on it. It was a 2WD, and here in the Northeast at that time of year the dealer knew it was almost impossible to sell it. Since I have an older 4WD truck and a Honda CRV I didn't need a 4WD to drive to Florida, so got a good deal on it. I still harass the salesman about how I saved him by buying that truck. The first owner probably took a big loss. I usually drive vehicles for a long time so no concern about getting my moneys worth out of it. It is very comfortable and pulls the Casita good. It has the Hemi engine so pulls into gas stations good too, but I'm happy with it.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Raz

John, I guess it depends on how much money you are prepared to lose. Nobody and I mean nobody wants a 2wd here in Vermont. Ice, snow, mountains. You buy a 2wd pickup, if you can find one, you either own it forever or donate it.

In principle I agree with Raspy but in reality I have to agree with Raz.
I owned a 1/2 ton , V6 , 2 wheel drive truck that was in good shape with NO rust and under 100K miles . When time came to sell / trade it in , it was worth practically nothing on the open market or as a trade in. As several dealers said " Who wants a 6 cylinder truck with 2 wheel drive in this area.
A friend of ours bought a new 2 wheel drive truck which had to be ordered from the factory because no one stocks 2 wheel drive trucks in our area . He got what he wanted but he paid dearly to get it. My truck with more options and 4 wheel drive cost less than his stripped down 2 wheel drive truck.

[Mike Magee]

Joseph, I live next door to you (in OK) but I grew up in Michigan. I always buy AWD or 4WD vehicles, so I can easily head to the grocery store after the occasional ice storm or snowstorm, congratulating myself on my great foresight as I see the neighbors shoveling, spinning tires uselessly, etc. I even take a tow strap along so I can pull them out.

Why do I have to go to the store after the storm, you wonder? You don't know my wife. "Go see if the store got any more eggs in yet... and pick up an extra loaf of bread, if there's any left..."

[Alf S.]

Originally Posted by macro95

Thank you Raz, Alf, and All! It seems there are pros and cons of Frontier as a TV although I am tilting toward the Frontier. My another question would be if 4wd outweighs 2wd when towing RV (e.g., Casita).

Hi: macro95... My choice of 4X4 was purely selfish. A year end deal on a " Has to be white, crew cab, long bed" had better chances being a 4 wheeler. The EPA figures showed a 1 mpg penalty and I had plenty of room for it under my Escape 5.0TA. The trailer tow pkg was of no consequence as I wouldn't be able to use the bumper hitch anyway. Me at 200 lbs don't need any more weight!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Mike_L]

For years my TV and my daily driver was the same vehicle. It was a compromise both ways. Now that I can afford a separate vehicle for just towing my trailer I added up the weight numbers, doubled them and bought that vehicle.
I've had a 4X4 for years but never used it to tow my trailer. My TV has a positive traction rear end. I carry double v-bar chains just in case but have never used them. Any place I need a 4X4 to tow my trailer I won't go.

[vintageracer]

The ONE option you should always consider purchasing especially when buying a vehicle NEW is 4WD or AWD IF it is offered as an option on the model vehicle you are considering to purchase. This is especially true for SUV's and car's.

4WD or AWD typically adds about $2000 to the purchase price of the most vehicle's including trucks HOWEVER 4WD or AWD can return as much as 2 to 3 times that amount in resale value versus an equal condition/equipped 2WD vehicle when it comes time for you to sell or trade that now used vehicle. This single option of 4WD or AWD ALWAYS returns to you ever dollar you spent buying this option when originally purchasing the vehicle.

I see this vast difference in wholesale prices ALL THE TIME at the Manheim and other dealer auctions. This is something everyone should "consider" when it comes time to purchase your next tow vehicle whether you need it or not!

[Raspy]

Mike,

Funny that you made no mention of the usefulness of 4WD. Just buy it to increase the value during re-sale, but not to get un-stuck or increase the the function of the TV.

It is interesting how valuable 4WD is.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Mike,

Funny that you made no mention of the usefulness of 4WD. Just buy it to increase the value during re-sale, but not to get un-stuck or increase the the function of the TV.

It is interesting how valuable 4WD is.

That is exactly the reason I wrote the post the way I did.

4WD or AWD usefulness is a decision for the buyer to make. My point was strictly from real world valuation of the option by the automotive marketplace in the US.

I will say this.

My wife's 2 previous vehicles (2004 VW Touareg and 2009 Ford Flex) were both AWD. After the 3rd time the Flex got rear-ended it was totaled. My wife decided she needed a vehicle quick and decided on a 2014 Nissan Pathfinder which is FWD with a CVT transmission. The Pathfinder was the #2 choice on her list as I could not find a reasonably priced AWD Ford Flex which was #1 on the list to replace the totaled AWD Ford Flex. A 4WD option is available on the Pathfinder HOWEVER she went for the "Deal" and one without 4WD. I found a Pathfinder Platinum on Manheim OVE that was "used" with only 400 miles that I purchased for $15K off original sticker price. That truly was deal back in February of 2014.

It did not take long for my wife to comment she will NEVER that mistake again and buy a 2WD vehicle of any type ever again! For HER the difference was night and day between the 2WD Pathfinder and the AWD Flex and AWD VW. The wet weather driving and performance is where the AWD really shines!

I will say this.

The 2014 Pathfinder now has 50K miles on it has been a dead reliable vehicle and that performed well. She still "wishes" we waited and bought another AWD Ford Flex. For "our" lifestyle the Flex truly is and was a great vehicle. The Pathfinder is nice and drives great in the dry however the wet weather performance and driving is below average at best!

Point being here is one lady to which 4WD/AWD is now the difference betwen buying and not buying any future vehicle!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Raz

John, I guess it depends on how much money you are prepared to lose. Nobody and I mean nobody wants a 2wd here in Vermont. Ice, snow, mountains. You buy a 2wd pickup, if you can find one, you either own it forever or donate it.

So if I ever need a used truck I should shop in Vermont?

[Joe Romas]

Why buy a vehicle based on what it will be worth If or when you trade it in??

That is only valid when your in the automotive business.

I owned a 07 Silverado Z71 (4x4), bought used, and had a legitimate use for a 4x4 exactly one time in 4 years I had three repairs, all were for something 4x4 related.
Yes I got a good return for it trading it in but also paid dearly When I bought it.

I buy vehicles for me and my needs and my new 2017 GMC is a 2wd that gets far better mileage and not having all the necessary hardware for 4x4 it gets better gas mileage and has more payload.

If people "did the math" on a vehicle's payload they might be surprised.

If I really need a 4x4 there's a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) that I bought new eleven years ago sitting in the garage.

But if I need 4x4 do I really need to be going?

Now if your an adventursum person who likes to go to the outback fine, get a 4x4 but there are a lot of camping spots between the outback and a KOA.

I once read that a person who drives or has towed a vehicle to the salvage yard pays the least per mile.


My 2 cents
Joe

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

So if I ever need a used truck I should shop in Vermont?

Yes, where 2wd pickups are concerned it's certainly a buyers market. However, finding what you would want might be difficult. As Ford stopped making Rangers 6 years ago finding a 2wd Ranger that's never been driven in winter could be challenging. On many roads the state now uses brine instead of rock salt. Gets into all the nooks and crannies. The rot starts at the back and works it's way forward. Still you might get lucky.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Joe Romas

Why buy a vehicle based on what it will be worth If or when you trade it in?? That is only valid when your in the automotive business.
...

I once read that a person who drives or has towed a vehicle to the salvage yard pays the least per mile.

Unless you're the one who drives a vehicle into the ground, you are in the automobile business. So resale does matter to some extent. How much it matters depends on how long you keep a vehicle. Those who buy new and trade every 3-5 years had better pay attention to what others want. Those who buy used and sell at 300K+ can shop for themselves. Most of us fit somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by vintageracer

...For HER the difference was night and day between the 2WD Pathfinder and the AWD Flex and AWD VW. The wet weather driving and performance is where the AWD really shines!...

There are a lot more differences between a Pathfinder and those two other vehicles than just AWD. Tires alone can make a world of difference in wet conditions.

When it comes to handling, there's also the difference between full-time and part-time systems. The OP is looking at trucks, which still use part-time systems for the most part. Part-time 4WD is not much help with handling in everyday highway driving.

On a pick-up a locking rear differential is probably more practical than a full 4WD system for most ordinary highway and light off-highway towing conditions. Sadly, it appears the Frontier only includes it on the off-road Pro-4X (4WD) and Desert Runner (2WD) versions.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

There are a lot more differences between a Pathfinder and those two other vehicles than just AWD. Tires alone can make a world of difference in wet conditions.

The same Michelin Pilots were on the Touareg, Flex and Pathfinder vehicles. Therefore tires should not be an issue in comparison.

I should have added in my first post that my wife also has a 2008 dodge Ram 1500 Hemi 4WD that she rarely ever drives. It's HER truck and the ONLY time I can drive it is to service it! Once again 4WD that she does not need but wants!

[Kentucky]

We have been told by several people not to exceed 80% of the towing capacity and have always tried to follow that rule. We towed our 17' Casita with a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 then traded it in for a Ford F-150. The trade was partially due to the issue I discussed in my earlier post (Tacoma seats were not comfortable for us), but also because the truck struggled a bit pulling the Casita in the mountains. We didn't even know the trailer was attached with the F-150.
Is the 80% rule valid?

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Kentucky

Is the 80% rule valid?

Strictly speaking, no. A capacity is a capacity. If a manufacturer wanted you to use the "80% rule", they'd have said so.

Having said that, a little margin is a good thing. And just speaking for myself only, a little more margin is even better.

[Mike_L]

I agree that 4X4 vehicles have a higher resale value because people want this option. I have two GMCs with the 4.3 v6 engine. The rear wheel drive gets twice the fuel mileage compared to the 4X4. Over the life of the vehicle the higher resale value of the 4X4 is nothing compared to the cost of all that extra gas.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

The rear wheel drive gets twice the fuel mileage compared to the 4X4.

The factory Federal Fuel Mileage statement from GM for S10's shows only a 2 MPG difference between 4WD and 2WD on the same V6 engine, transmission and body configuration on a S10!

There is a lot wrong with that 4WD V6 truck that causes it gets HALF (your words) the fuel mileage of your 2WD V6 truck.

You need a tune up and probably much more!

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

The factory Federal Fuel Mileage statement from GM for S10's shows only a 2 MPG difference between 4WD and 2WD on the same V6 engine, transmission and body configuration on a S10!

There is a lot wrong with that 4WD V6 truck that causes it gets HALF (your words) the fuel mileage of your 2WD V6 truck.

You need a tune up and probably much more!

I have to agree. There may be several reasons for going 2WD instead of 4WD - weight, intended use, location, cost, etc. But fuel economy is not a big factor. My F150 for example is a 2WD 2.7L Ecoboost. The 4WD version with the same body and engine comes in at 2 MPG lower - not enough in my opinion to influence anything.

[Mike_L]

My 4X4 Sonoma is an S15 with a 411 posi rear end etc. On the highway I can't 20 mpg in 2wd high range empty. My Safari has the same 4.3 cid. I believe the rear end is a 272 (?). Empty, on the highway I can get 30 mpg all day long. I suspect it's the gear ratios. The 4X4 tachs a lot higher.
Both my 2.3 cid 5 gear 2wd Rangers easily get 40 mpg on the highway.
My 7.3 cid diesel gets 16 - 18 mpg highway towing or empty in high range.
My L82 corvette has never gotten 20 mpg ever but also tachs high. A T6 would fix that.
All my vehicles are very well tuned.
All mileages are hand calculated for Imperial gallons.
Cheers!