Tow vehicles - choices, choices! - Page 11 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #141
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Name: george
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I will admit I like having less paper to deal with. I have relegated the old woodells campground guide....the one that is like a telephone book, to the shelf in the garage. Replaced by a couple of apps on the iPad.

I never have had the paper version of the workshop manual for the Frontier.... I got this e-version on a CD when the truck was new, and made copies of it on two different hard drives, stored it in the cloud on my webserver, and also a copy on a USB jumpstick.
Addicted to electronics ? ....yeah....probably so.....
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:09 PM   #142
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Just so y'all know, our quest, and review of choices is over, so this thread can be locked!

Today the little woman bought a brilliant ruby red 2013 2.0 liter Ecoboost Ford Escape with the tow package. We drove one a couple times, and she loved the feel and handle more than any of the many others we test drove. It is what it is. We will probably take delivery Monday.

Frank
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:13 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by frank_a View Post
Just so y'all know, our quest, and review of choices is over, so this thread can be locked!

Today the little woman bought a brilliant ruby red 2013 2.0 liter Ecoboost Ford Escape with the tow package. We drove one a couple times, and she loved the feel and handle more than any of the many others we test drove. It is what it is. We will probably take delivery Monday.

Frank
Sounds very nice ! But....thread can't be locked until we see PICS of it !
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:15 PM   #144
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Pics soon. Now we can focus on selling our 2009 GMC, Sunline T1550, and 1999 Honda ATV. Proceeds mostly to go towards a new ParkLiner. After a lot of looking, we are VERY sold on ParkLiners!

Frank
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:52 PM   #145
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So I'm going to download a PDF file and print 600 to 1200 pages on 8x12-inch typing paper, and staple it together? I don't think so.
Of course not. If you want paper, the rational way to get it is as a properly printed booklet from the manufacturer. In Denny's Jeep example, he said "They will send paper copies if you ask."

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Give me a properly indexed booklet that fits in the glove compartment every time.
That's a lot of material to expect to fit nicely in a small space, which is the point: excessive complexity is bad.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:22 PM   #146
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......

That's a lot of material to expect to fit nicely in a small space, which is the point: excessive complexity is bad.
Well, like it or not, THAT genie is out of the bottle. No going back, complexity in vehicles is here to stay, and much of it is not complex just for the sake of complexity, it is complicated because it really does need to be to meet current and future emmisions, driveability, and fuel economy standards. To say nothing of the fact that we as consumers demand more and more creature comforts, etc, as time goes by.
Just for fun, I just looked at the section in the workshop manual of the Frontier for the CAN system. 444 pages just for that system alone.
For sure an important part of being a good tech in a modern garage is having good reading comprehension skills.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:44 PM   #147
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Carol - Tell me more about towing with a Subaru. My wife and I thought that a new 3.6L Outback would make a nice runabout family car that would then have plenty of power to tow a 15-17 ft lightweight camper (Scamp, Casita, etc.). But it looks like Subaru does everything they can to discourage towing with it - no towing package, only factory option for a hitch is 1 1/4" (apparently there is an aftermarket 2" available), warnings about towing if ambient temp is over 104 degrees (say goodbye to touring the Southwest during half the year). And we've heard the hitch weight limit is wimpy with no way to boost or raise the rear suspension - leaves your headlights "searching for owls in the sky" if you try to drive at night.

So what's the story on towing with a Subaru? Especially a newer 6-cylinder OutBack?

Dale
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:23 PM   #148
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I'm not Carol, but I do sometimes tow my Scamp 16 with our Subaru. It tows well, the low center of gravity and AWD give it a very solid and secure feel. Ours is the 4 cyl A/T, with trans cooler and electric brakes.
The biggest problem with using the Subaru for towing in my opinion is that the tongue weight is limited to 200 lbs. I can get there with my Scamp, but it means setting it up with just a single propane tank and adding water to the fresh water tank to help transfer some weight off the hitch and move it to the rear.
At one time the Escape only supplied a 1 1/4" hitch from the factory, do they provide a 2" now? We drove the 2.0 Escape last month and liked it but are waiting to see how the recent Ram pickups perform, especially when they supply the 3.0 diesel.
The temperature limitation on the Subaru only applies when climbing mountains, and only on the automatics, so we'll use our Dakota if we need to climb any mountains in the summer.
The 6 cyl engine is rated to tow 300 lbs more than my 4, but the 200 lb tongue limit weight still applies last I heard. Subaru recommends a tongue weight between 8-11%, so simple math makes me scratch my head on how you can tow 3000 lbs and not exceed the 200 lb tongue weight and still keep within the 8-11% recommendation. Must be that new math.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:03 PM   #149
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John - Thanks for your feedback. Just today I saw a new Ford Escape in a parking with what looked like a factory/dealer installed 2" box hitch, but only a 4-pin electrical hook-up. We have not test driven one, but we've heard good things about them and need to. Had a 1988 4x4 4Runner manual with a big heart but only four cylinders. Needed a slow lane on hills to get out of everyone else's way. Traded for our current 2002 Highlander 3.0L auto that just won't quit, but the odometer is running out of numbers (an exaggeration, but you get the idea). We've had great luck with the last two Toyotas and will likely go that way again when the time comes, but thought we needed to take off our blinders and look around a bit. You never know. Thanks again....

Dale
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:43 PM   #150
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John - Thanks for your feedback. Just today I saw a new Ford Escape in a parking with what looked like a factory/dealer installed 2" box hitch, but only a 4-pin electrical hook-up.....
Dale
Dealer installed the same (2" hitch receiver, 4 pin plug) on our Escape (2005) but it was only $45 to have a 7 pin trailer plug installed to replace it. Including the part.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:02 AM   #151
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I had no problem getting a hitch installed on mine as there are lots of after market hitches out there for it as Subaru only actually start to offer their own hitch a couple of years ago. No problem re the hitch height on my Scamp 16, lots of clearance & no rear sage issue. Actually need a 2" drop hitch to get the trailer level, so no issues in regards to head lights pointing up that you mention. Can't comment on the newer Outbacks as Subaru has made a number if body style changes in recent years but they sure look to have pretty good rear clearance.

Mine came pre wired for towing but I did have to have a break wire added which believe it or not is pretty common even on some vehicles with what the manufacture calls there full tow package.

In six years I Have put 70000 miles on the car of which about 35000 are tow miles, had in down in the southern US in fall/winter but have hit some pretty hot weather in interior states & provinces in summer months without any issues. As others have said with its weight & wheel bases it tows fine, very solid even in a wind storm if you have sufficient tongue weight. The tongue weight limit of 200lbs is the BIG downside to towing a trailer over 13' with it. I have one of the lightest 16' on the Trailer weights in the Real World tread & I find I need the tongue at 240lbs for a solid tow. If traveling on freeways i tend to go a bit higher on the tongue but I don't tow over 65 due to my trailer tire limits. I can get away with the higher tongue as I often travel on my own or with only one passenger & don't carry a whole lot in the car other than golf clubs & very light bikes on the roof.

Personally would not purchase another Outback with the intent of towing anything over 13'. As much as I love my Subaru (4th one) I am looking at changing. Current vechile I am seriously considering is the Highlander. A number of folks here are pulling 17' & 19' with them and those I have asked to at rally's seem very happy with there towing ability.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:19 AM   #152
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We've had great luck with the last two Toyotas and will likely go that way again when the time comes, but thought we needed to take off our blinders and look around a bit. You never know. Thanks again....

Dale
I have a 2008 Tacoma, haven't done anything except change the fluids and top up the windshield washer fluid. If you stray from Toyota, you'll be back. I did stray, with great frustation, I owned a big 3 full size for only 4900 km and ran crying back to the Toyota dealership. I've had a 4Runner, pickup, and a bunch of Corollas, great vehicles.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:31 AM   #153
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We put a custom fit Class 3 hitch on our 2.5 liter 2008 Outback that I am removing tonight before I put the car up for sale. While we had zero problems towing and the car is in great shape, there is a bigger market out there for vehicles without a hitch. The 4 pin flat connector was a snap-in to the factory wiring, easy to remove. All this vehicle has towed is a small utility trailer and out 14' boat, both easy tows and the Outback never had a problem with them. Then I'll have Subaru hitch stuff to sell in a month or so...

We got the tow package with our 2013 Escape. It's a 2" receiver rated as a Class 2 hitch (3500#s max capacity). Most Class 2 hitches are 1-1/4", not this one, which is great. All my ball mounts work with it! The only down side is the factory package only comes with a 4 pin flat connector and has to upgraded to a 7 pin RV plug. I'll be doing that soon and take plenty of pics! We probably won't get an egg till next year anyways.

Frank
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:34 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Frank A
While we had zero problems towing and the car is in great shape, there is a bigger market out there for vehicles without a hitch
The presence of a hitch suggests a vehicle which can tow and quite possibly has seen service towing. Absence of a hitch suggests that a vehicle has not towed. Hmmm. Pretty shrewd.

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