Tow vehicles - choices, choices!

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Or post a question on the 4Runner Forum.....

....or a guy could download the owner manual from the Toyota website. Get it straight from the horse mouth...

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

....or a guy could download the owner manual from the Toyota website. Get it straight from the horse mouth...

If it in fact explains how it works, as opposed to how and when to operate it.

[rabbit]

I tow a 17' Burro with an '06 4runner, 4 litre 6 cyl. SR5 w/ tow package. Leaving behind the intricacies of multiple drive axles, the suspension in many SUVs is soft. Timbren "donuts" in the rear coils leveled out my ride while towing and limited the bucking or pitchpoling which I experienced initially.

jack

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

If it in fact explains how it works, as opposed to how and when to operate it.

Yes, you may be right on that Tom. When I looked on the toyota website, they list both styles of 4WD, and the description, but yet show one of them as be "not available" on all three models ! I thought....what the heck ? So that was when I went to the e-brochure I linked above.
So apparently, their webmaster hosed up the main webpage for that feature.

Kinda off on a tangent, but one of the reasons I prefer a pickup is because it has the "outside the cabin" area to safely stow and carry things like generators, gasoline, BBQ grills, etc.....things I don't want inside with me or inside the camper. Just personal preference I reckon.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rabbit

... the suspension in many SUVs is soft.

Yes, this is commonly observed with some pickups, too. It is the result of the compromise between stiffness for load handling and softness for ride when unloaded.

Originally Posted by rabbit

Timbren "donuts" in the rear coils leveled out my ride while towing and limited the bucking or pitchpoling which I experienced initially.

Another option is air springs, which can be easily adjusted to suit the load and thus reach a better compromise over a range of conditions.

Several SUVs - including I believe the Grand Cherokee - and at least one pickup (Dodge 1500) have air suspension available from the factory as an option. Rear suspensions with coil springs and separately mounted shocks (such as the 4Runner and FJ) can easily have air springs added as simple polyurethane bags inside the coils; an example is Firestone's Coil-Rite. The 4Runner/FJ Coil-Rite install is more involved than for many vehicles, but it is still at the do-it-yourself level.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, this is commonly observed with some pickups, too. It is the result of the compromise between stiffness for load handling and softness for ride when unloaded.

.....

Yes, that's true Brian, the Tacoma is known for being a bit softer in the rear suspension than for instance the Frontier. Yep....the Taco rides a little smoother empty.

[frank_a]

Boy, thanks for all the info folks, especially Brian! I'm getting quite the education here and I sure do appreciate everyone's concern and time.

Someone mentioned Ridgeline is done. I believe Colorado/Canyon is done too. I have a 4wd Canyon, and while I basically like it, it is a 4 cyl standard and limited for towing. Plus the only options are a locking differential and tow package. No power anything! I don't mind the standard really, but it decreases tow capacity. And after 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, I get tired of rolling up windows. In 2009 this truck was the best I could do.

Thanks again guys. Once we have some weekend time we'll be test driving.

Frank

[Kevin K]

Be careful of Toyota, they have problems with frame rust.
https://www.google.com/search?newwin...rp.L_nbmuW3Oco

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by frank_a

I want the main drive wheels in the back for pulling my boat out of steep launches. The tongue weight presses down on the drive wheels, making it much easier to haul a boat out. Even when I had just rear wheel drive vehicles, I never had problems pulling my cuddy cabin out of a launch. Now we're pulling a travel trailer, looking for a bigger one, and still have a boat on a trailer to haul.

Frank

Don't want to rain on your parade, but a RWD pickup sucks for pulling a boat up the slippery ramps around here. Several of the guys I work with went to SUVs and mini vans. The pickups just spun tires on ramp and putting into 4WD also broke driveshafts. The only holdout was the quad cab and he always had a load of coolers and gear in the bed.

Seams the newer FWD and AWD do a great job for this task. With the tech in all new vehicles I wouldn't rule one out based on old notions.

If the Ridgeline was still being sold I would recommend it. Better also to look at how comfortable the ride is. See if the dealer will let you test drive it home over a weekend. No point of buying a tug that looks good on paper but jars your back and makes you uncomfortable.

I would be more worried about tongue weight capacity if you are considering a Casita. From what I have read and my own research they seem a little heavier than other eggs.

Jason

[frank_a]

Not raining on my parade at all. I've been pulling boats (including some big ones) out of launches for 40 years now, and mostly with just rear wheel drive stuff. It makes no sense to use FWD and have the leverage on the rear wheels when you're pulling up. Also, all my experience is in the NE where maybe we just don't have the sort of slimy ramps you guys in FL have? I have lots of boating buddies with plain RWD trucks too. I've been boating a lot longer than I have been pulling travel trailers!

Don't worry, we will start test driving tugs soon with purchase planned for 2014. I'm a planner by nature and can't help myself. We always test drive lots of vehicles before buying. Now of course, we have the benefit of the web!

Frank

[MCDenny]

I'm selling my RAV4 V6 AWD which has worked just fine towing my 2850# camper all over and seasonally launching my 3500# boat. Looking to upgrade to a larger and silvery trailer and just bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 4wd in anticipation. 6200# tow rating, 24 mph hwy EPA rating. You can get the basic model, still very nicely equipped, for not much over $30k. The Jeep tow package includes auto leveling rear shocks.

v8 and diesel tow 7200#. V8 is 4 mpg worse than V6, diesel is 4mpg better. Diesel adds $7k to cost over v6. V8 is $2k extra. Also a jeep diesel won't actually be available in the USA until next fall.

I test drove a VW Touareg diesel. Really nice and the diesel torque was amazing but so was the price, about $10k more than the Jeep. VW also insisted in bold print NOT to use a WD hitch.

[frank_a]

Getting rid of your Lil Snoozy are ya? I love the looks of those trailers! What's the new silvery one gonna be?

That's a good recommendation for the RAV4. My boat is the lightweight streamlined tow package, any trailer I get (like the one I now have) will be heavier than my old classic speed boat. I want an egg though because as trailers go, they are streamlined.

One of my best friends has owned a very successful repair shop for decades and tells me to stay away from Jeeps (and BMW's). Of course, everyone has an opinion. JD Power is just out with their quality ratings and Chevy/GMC are at the top for the 1st time in ages. I am not really sure which way to go at this point, what with interest rates headed up and all.

Hmmmmm.....

Good luck!

Frank

[MCDenny]

Keeping the Snoozy until the AS follows me home. The Snoozy is fine for the two of us but we have two little grand sons we want to take camping in the not to far distant future. Plus I like working on the trailer too and think restoring an AS would be fun.

I've read about the quality issues with Jeeps but this will be the fourth JGC I've had and they have all been fine. Traded the 2005 for the RAV because of its crappy gas mileage but they have come a long way. My 2005 weighed 4400#, had 225 hp and got at best 18 mpg on the hwy. New 2014 weighs 4800#, 290 hp, 24 mpg hwy.

I'm into wood boats too, here's a pic of a 24' powerboat and a 25' electric launch I built.







Denny Wolfe

Www.wanderingourway.wordpress.com
Www.wolfeboats.com

[frank_a]

Aha, gonna fix up an old airstream eh Denny? I have some friends that did one a few years ago, and it turned out spectacular!

My boat is not wood. It is a fiberglass '62 Power Cat 14T, a 14' 300# tunnel hull speedboat. For some reason, Photobucket has gone nutty on me, so I can't post a pic, but here's a link to a bunch of them, and an article I wrote about it: Power Cat Boat It's powered by a '63 Merc1000, and is a ACBS regatta winner. I'm in the middle of building a '70 Merc1350 for it, and have a vintage CMC jack plate to install on it when I get the 1350 done, hopefully next year.

You've got some nice boats there. I particularly like the electric launch. We used to have an electric boat company near where we live. ELCO, in Athens NY. Maybe you've heard of them? I'm not sure where they moved to.

I gotta get back at it so I can earn some dough. Enjoy your day!

Frank

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by frank_a

Someone mentioned Ridgeline is done. I believe Colorado/Canyon is done too.

This is an unfortunate time to be shopping for a mid-size truck, because the first generation Colorado/Canyon ended with the 2012 model year, and the new one doesn't appear until perhaps next spring. I didn't realize the first one was actually done.

It is still on the Chevy web site, but little information is provided and this note explains why:

Although the Colorado is no longer in production, find available used models in your area at gmcertified.com.

They want people to know there is a mid-sized Chevy truck, but they can't actually sell you a new one! I don't know if any dealers have new stock left, but if they do they're likely undesirable configurations.
Trivia: For those who like to customize, have a lot of stuff to carry, and don't need much cab, this truck came in a regular cab with the longer wheelbase of the longer cabs (and thus four feet from cab to axle); they didn't have a box long enough to fit that combination, so it was only sold as a cab-and-chassis (no box - build your own). This was intended for commercial users, who added service bodies or flat decks.

Originally Posted by frank_a

I have a 4wd Canyon, and while I basically like it, it is a 4 cyl standard and limited for towing.

The top engine in the original Colorado/Canyon line was the larger 5-cylinder. If that is not enough, unfortunately the vehicle was not designed to take the six-cylinder in the same engine family. GM eventually resorted to putting their all-purpose V8 in the related Hummer H3 and some of the Colorado/Canyons, but that seems like overkill, and probably not very efficient (although that's only a guess on my part).

Originally Posted by frank_a

Plus the only options are a locking differential and tow package. No power anything!

While I assume there were options available, I don't know what is out there. The new one will presumably have the typical modern array of toys.

[frank_a]

There were all kinds of options available for these trucks when I bought mine new Brian, I just wanted a new truck as cheap as I could get it. In retrospect, that was a clear mistake on my part, but then again, hindsight is always 20/20.

I'm still trying to figure out what way to go, and will probably be back and forth before I actually go out and buy something.

Thanks!

Frank

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by frank_a

There were all kinds of options available for these trucks when I bought mine new Brian, I just wanted a new truck as cheap as I could get it.

If the replacement doesn't need to be absolutely new, a trade for a better-equipped nearly-new Colorado/Canyon may become an option. On the same basis, a Ranger or SportTrac (other recently departed smaller trucks) are also options. Similarly, there are mid-sized SUVs that some may prefer in a recent but no longer current configuration - Nissan Pathfinder and Ford Explorer come to mind.

Of course, absolutely new is better for warranty, for knowledge of the vehicle's history, and for maximum remaining lifespan.

Even hindsight isn't always 20/20... some of us have to make the same mistake multiple times before learning! And having the wrong truck now doesn't mean the current one was a mistake at all: situations change. Just my opinion...

[frank_a]

My Canyon was the 1st truck I ever bought brand new Brian. It was a big deal. In 2009 we were still tent camping. That changed in 2011 with a Sunline Sunspot that was easily towed behind the Canyon. Then in 2012, finding we enjoyed NOT sleeping on the ground in a tent, we got a larger Sunline that really tests the limits of the Canyon. The funny thing is, for a tow capacity of 2100#s, it came with a factory 7 pin RV connector.

I expect the next one will be used just due to the astronomical prices of adequately equipped brand new trucks. I need to have enough cash to buy the egg we want too!

Frank

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by MCDenny

<<clipped>>

I test drove a VW Touareg diesel. Really nice and the diesel torque was amazing but so was the price, about $10k more than the Jeep. VW also insisted in bold print NOT to use a WD hitch.

Check all German makes - I read about that and it has to do with towing practices in Europe and a certain trailer chassis supplier. I thought someone posted the story here on FGRV somewhere, but I'll post a link if I find it again.

Jason

PS; the Audi Q5 is supposed to get the same 3.0L TDI later this year or early next and starts out cheaper.

[MCDenny]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

Check all German makes - I read about that and it has to do with towing practices in Europe and a certain trailer chassis supplier. I thought someone posted the story here on FGRV somewhere, but I'll post a link if I find it again.

Jason

PS; the Audi Q5 is supposed to get the same 3.0L TDI later this year or early next and starts out cheaper.

Well it's too, late as we ordered the Jeep, in fact it was supposed to be assembled today.

Reading on the Touareg forums, it sounds like the factory hitch attach points aren't strong enough, at least in VW's opinion, to withstand the twisting load a WDH imparts. I looked under it and the hitch attach points did not go very far forward. The Jeep hitch seemed at lot more tied into the fore and aft structure. Lots of people though reported using WDH on their Tregs with no problem. The price of the Treg, nearly $10k more than a V6 JGC, and the fact that I have a Jeep dealer that i trust only ten miles away while the VW store is 45 miles away led me to pick the Jeep. The 6200 lbs tow cap is plenty for anything I might want to pull.