Tow vehicles - choices, choices!

[jack smith]

Interesting thread. I'm in the middle of "wheeling and dealing" to trade-in my '05 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited for a Nissan Frontier. Bought my Jeep new and have enjoyed it over the years, but sigh.... time for something new and more suited to towing my 16 Scamp.

Have researched and dealt/dealing with dealers (groan).... Tacoma is WAY overpriced! I've pretty much settled on the Frontier SV 4x4 and currently debating the crew cab vs the king cab. Am more inclined to the crew cab as there is more "inside storage" that is relatively out of sight, out of the weather etc. Plus the ability to carry a couple of friends in relative comfort. A good friend just bought a Frontier SV 2x4 king cab to tow his Casita 16... he loves it!

Must confess that I've not (and won't) even consider a Colorado or whatever... just my opinion. Have owned a couple of Nissans.... back when they were Datsuns. Good vehicles.

[Rpryor3]

Since you mentioned 4-runner.....the FJ cruiser meets all your requirements and is more capable off road. That's what I have and it's great. It came with the factory tow package, 5000 lb rating, and it tows like there is nothing back there.

[ruscal]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

The Ridgeline has also been discontinued, so buying a new one isn't going to happen ( unless you found a new leftover sitting somewhere ).

Dealers here in San Diego have 2013 Ridgelines in stock. I took one for a spin today. Pretty impressive ride and feel. I have not found any official word of discontinuation, just rumors. I also drove a Honda Pilot which was also a very nice driving car. The Pilot had the 7 pin trailer plug, power steering cooler, trans cooler, factory installed. The Ridgline in the RTSL trim also had the towing goodies. The power should be fine for towing a 16' FGRV in flat country, but in the mountains the tranny will downshift and have the engine singing to stay in the torque band. The V6 Toyotas will do the same. The trailering mileage will not be that impressive either. The advantage of these marginal tow vehicles will come into play when used for other non towing purposes where they will get better mileage than larger V8 powered trucks. The V8 trucks towing mileage is not that different, and they can climb mountains maybe a gear higher. It would probably be a good idea to install a transmision temp gauge on any of the small V6 powered tow vehicles so you could monitor your driving style to keep temps under control. The Hondas require premium fuel for towing. (some big V8's also drink premium though)
Decisions.....
Russ

[Rpryor3]

Originally Posted by ruscal

Dealers here in San Diego have 2013 Ridgelines in stock. I took one for a spin today. Pretty impressive ride and feel. I have not found any official word of discontinuation, just rumors. I also drove a Honda Pilot which was also a very nice driving car. The Pilot had the 7 pin trailer plug, power steering cooler, trans cooler, factory installed. The Ridgline in the RTSL trim also had the towing goodies. The power should be fine for towing a 16' FGRV in flat country, but in the mountains the tranny will downshift and have the engine singing to stay in the torque band. The V6 Toyotas will do the same. The trailering mileage will not be that impressive either. The advantage of these marginal tow vehicles will come into play when used for other non towing purposes where they will get better mileage than larger V8 powered trucks. The V8 trucks towing mileage is not that different, and they can climb mountains maybe a gear higher. It would probably be a good idea to install a transmision temp gauge on any of the small V6 powered tow vehicles so you could monitor your driving style to keep temps under control. The Hondas require premium fuel for towing. (some big V8's also drink premium though)
Decisions.....
Russ

The thing about Ridgelines are they have independent rear suspension. Not sure how that holds up to towing as opposed to a live solid rear axle.

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by Rpryor3

The thing about Ridgelines are they have independent rear suspension. Not sure how that holds up to towing as opposed to a live solid rear axle.

[soap box]
What vehicle from any manufacture has been equipped with a live axle in the last 60 or 70 years?! Mustang had a solid axle as recent as a couple years ago and trucks still have them. But a solid axle and live axle are not the same! Live axle has no differential ability to allow the inner wheel to turn slower than the outer wheel in a turn.
[/soap box]

Sorry, but that is one of my pet peeves and I had to vent.

IRS does fine for towing. Some people may chime in with their experiences with Subaru, Toyota, Kia, Honda.

Jason

[frank_a]

I thought the limiting thing about Ridgelines had to do with a CVT, or something about the tranny.

I've towed lots of stuff behind my hot rod that has IRS. Doesn't make any difference that I can see. The hitch is built off the dogbone that connects the lower control arms, so it is integral with the center section. There are lots of vehicles nowadays with IRS!

Frank

[gmw photos]

My only complaint about towing with IRS is that in some cases, the rear of the vehicles settles enough to change the camber of the rear wheels as you drive. This can and likely will wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely. So if I were going to consider a IRS car to tow with, I would want to answer a couple of questions.

1. can it set up so the rear wheels have the correct alignment when ready to tow ?

2. if not, how quickly is it going to wear the tires, and how many miles am I going to be towing vs non-towing miles ?
2a. am I willing to eat that extra cost of reduced tire life ?

I think if you look around this forum you will see many members towing FGRV's with IRS tugs. The Rav4 folks, the Honda CRV, probably all of the scooby-do cars, etc.....many are IRS. And most all of them are reporting they work acceptably for them.

Having said all that, back to the Ridgeline in particular, I tend to think of it more as a "car that is dressed up as a truck", than a real truck. That's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth.
IMO, a "truck" has a frame, has a solid rear axle, etc.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by
[/soap box

Sorry, but that is one of my pet peeves and I had to vent.

IRS does fine for towing. Some people may chime in with their experiences with Subaru, Toyota, Kia, Honda.

Jason

Yup Subaru has IRS and *lots* of folks here have happily towed thousands of miles with them over various terrains with no complaints. Including myself.

Lots of folks here are also towing with the Toyota Highlander (more & more showing up at trailer meets) & its also IRS. The owners I have talked to all seem pretty happy with it. .

[Glenn Baglo]

My pet peeve is acronym's that haven't been spelled out at least once at the beginning.

[chuyler1]

Hah hah, I was just thinking the same thing but context clues leads me to believe this last page is discussing vehicles with Independent Rear Suspension, am I right?

I was having this discussion with my wife a month or so ago when she was afraid my mini pickup wasn't going to handle the 16' Scamp. I had one additional requirement though, stick shift. Boy does that narrow the options. A vehicle with 2,000+ towing capacity that comes in stick? If I want an SUV there are basically 3...

1) Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
2) Toyota FJ Cruiser
3) Nissan Xterra

I told the wife absolutely no to any Jeep product. We can have another discussion about it but I like my vehicles to last 150k with minimal maintenance and she's gone through 2 that we sold because the repairs started stacking up. Every owner of an FJ I spoke to complained about the suicide doors so that one was out too. That left the Xterra. We heard a few complaints from owners but after a test drive it seemed like a decent vehicle. I don't think we necessarily need the off-road capabilities of any of these selections but I really don't enjoy driving automatic. It bores me to death. I will revisit the Xterra in a few years when my daily driver is ready to trade in.

[Carol H]

I suppose it was a little presumptuous of me to believe we were not talking about the Internal Revenue Service ;-)

[Raz]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

That left the Xterra. We heard a few complaints from owners but after a test drive it seemed like a decent vehicle. I don't think we necessarily need the off-road capabilities of any of these selections but I really don't enjoy driving automatic. It bores me to death. I will revisit the Xterra in a few years when my daily driver is ready to trade in.

I looked at the Xterra. I like my crew cab Frontier better. Same engine, same gas mileage, a lot more cargo space and cheaper. The manuals are hard to find so I "settled" for an automatic. I've found for towing I like it better. I don't think the Frontier will climb rocks as well as the Xterra but some more adventurous Frontier owners may disagree. Raz

P.S. If you want a manual in any of these, I suggest you buy it sooner rather than later. The pattern seems that as the current generation of any of these vehicles is discontinued so goes the manual transmission.

[RogerDat]

Just a note on something. AWD can be twitchy about tire wear, even a little difference in tire diam. from wear can fool the AWD brain into engaging the other axle. Had that on a Honda CRV and rear end started to "howl" right after a pair of tires was replaced. Three different places (including dealer) said we needed new rear end. Rotated tires from front to back and it was all good again.

I like the manually controlled 4WD lock, especially one with a low setting. I think Jeep designates it as Trail Rated. Some situations such as boat launch or pulling up hill out of a rain soaked campsite if the second axle does not engage until tires start to slip on primary axle it's already too late.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Some situations such as boat launch or pulling up hill out of a rain soaked campsite if the second axle does not engage until tires start to slip on primary axle it's already too late.

or you could get a vehicle such as a Subaru that has real full time AWD.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Rpryor3

The thing about Ridgelines are they have independent rear suspension. Not sure how that holds up to towing as opposed to a live solid rear axle.

The IRS is a bonus which smooths out the ride and make for a more stable TV.
We have friends that are towing a good sized Airstream with a Ridge and they really like the way it all works. Note it was a pro set up.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I like the manually controlled 4WD lock, especially one with a low setting. I think Jeep designates it as Trail Rated.

No, Jeep's Trail Rated designation means that the vehicle is deemed to meet a set of standards for off-road (but apparently on-trail) performance; it is not tied to a specific drive system feature.

[Brian B-P]

There is no direct correlation between the general type of suspension design - independent or non-independent - and capacity or capability. Many large military vehicles have fully independent suspensions with capacity far beyond that of any pickup truck.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

IMO, a "truck" has a frame, has a solid rear axle, etc.

I agree. But neither of those attributes are related to being a top rated TV.

The TV's that are really outstanding performers have a Unibody and IRS.

ie... Mercedes SUV's, VW Touareg, Ford Expedition, to name a few.


Note... For those who have heavy payload demands then a full framed vehicle is required but realize the shortcomings.

[Glenn Baglo]

Had a 1987 Subaru wagon that I used to tow a boat. You put it into 4x4 manually. The problem was that with all the wheels locked, it didn't have enough power to turn on pavement. So, the boat ramp led up to a busy street. I had the momentum to get up the rise, but when I had to turn onto the street, I couldn't, because the engine would die. To get it out of 4x4 you often had to back up several feet. Was a bit of a circus, ending with me in two wheel ( front wheel drive ) and the tires smoking as I inched my way up to the street and made the turn.
The other problem with it was its brakes, the size of the lid from a tin of Campbell's soup. Good for a couple of scares and glazed brakes.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by MC1

I agree. But neither of those attributes are related to being a top rated TV.

The TV's that are really outstanding performers have a Unibody and IRS.

ie... Mercedes SUV's, VW Touareg, Ford Expedition, to name a few.


Note... For those who have heavy payload demands then a full framed vehicle is required but realize the shortcomings.

Well, as a general view of all of this, I come back to what I think needs to be the "first" consideration when choosing a tow vehicle. And that is, are you a user that wishes to remain within the stated load limits of the OEM ( original equipment manufacturer ), or are you willing to tow with a setup that sometimes goes way, far beyond the car or truck manufacturers limits ? Once that question is answered, then you can start making TV ( tow vehicle ) choices. If a person is willing to operate beyond stated limits, and more specifically, if you are willing to spend the money and hire a certain, specific, well known RV dealer company in Canada ( who is often referred to as "a professional setup" ), then you actually have a very wide choice of vehicles from which to choose building out as a tow vehicle.

On the other hand, if you wish to remain within stated limits, then you may in fact be pretty much limited to a full framed truck type vehicle, that most likely will not be an IRS ( independant rear suspension ) design.

I'm not here to pass judgement on either method. Compelling arguements with supporting data can be presented on both sides of that aisle. So that is how I always try to state it......make that determination first, then start researching what will work for your individual comfort zone.

This is one of the "advantages" of you all being in the FGRV ( that would be the acronym for FiberGlassRecreationalVehicle........chuckle, chuckle......sorry just messin' with sasquatch here.......)
....many of these units are so danged light anyway, y'all could tow 'em with a Fiat 500, and still be within limits !
Get into the heavier stuff though, and we see all manner of setups that may or may not be shall we say.......ideal.....