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Old 06-24-2013, 05:07 PM   #61
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IMO, a "truck" has a frame, has a solid rear axle, etc.
I guess that means that a Hummer H1 (or the original HMMWV military version) and the Oshkosh LVSR (which has a 22.5 ton payload) are not "trucks".

Why would't the front need to be a beam axle as well? Why allow some newfangled Mickey Mouse independent stuff there?

Just kidding... I know many people consider only the "conventional" design to be a "true" example of anything... trucks, sports cars, whatever.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:12 PM   #62
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Note: The Mercedes SUV's, VW Touareg, and Ford Expedition all have tow ratings from 7,500 to 9,000lbs.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:27 PM   #63
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No, Jeep's Trail Rated designation means that the vehicle is deemed to meet a set of standards for off-road (but apparently on-trail) performance; it is not tied to a specific drive system feature.
I think all of the trail rated Jeep offerings use one of the "locking" systems to meet the traction requirements. As opposed to the more dynamic auto 4WD systems which are better suited to street use.

Jeep - 4x4 Basics - 4x4 Systems by Vehicle - 4WD SUVs

It's been a few years since I shopped for one but at the time I was told by the dealer that any Jeep that was trail rated would have ability to lock into 4WD Lo which is what I wanted.

Never got the Jeep, new car would always be primarily driven by DW and she always found something she liked more. Each and every one of the three attempts I made. Sigh.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:31 PM   #64
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I guess that means that a Hummer H1 (or the original HMMWV military version) and the Oshkosh LVSR (which has a 22.5 ton payload) are not "trucks".

Why would't the front need to be a beam axle as well? Why allow some newfangled Mickey Mouse independent stuff there?

Just kidding... I know many people consider only the "conventional" design to be a "true" example of anything... trucks, sports cars, whatever.
You make a valid point, so I should have qualified my statement with the caveat that I define "trucks" in this case to be what I would call normal mainstream consumer type vehicles, that are in a price range that that most folks can afford. That would be trucks between what I would loosely define as the four cylinder small trucks like recent Rangers, S-10's etc, up through the various 1/2 ton and maybe 3/4 or even one ton offerings from the majors.

It's true that some large military vehicles have fully independant suspension systems. You may not like the driving experience though running down the interstate in the right lane at 45 to 50 mph tops......

In my opinion, the major car companies still like these solid rear axles in light duty trucks because they are a simple, strong design that maintains control of geometry throughout the travel. And they are so well established, they are also likely the least expensive to manufacture, which is no small consideration.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:34 PM   #65
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Why would't the front need to be a beam axle as well? Why allow some newfangled Mickey Mouse independent stuff there?
.....and hey, I grew up driving a '59 Ford truck with a solid beam front axle. Six banger, three on the tree........PLEASE DON'T make me go back to that ! ! !
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #66
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I thought the limiting thing about Ridgelines had to do with a CVT, or something about the tranny.
I don't think it would be a CVT... I don't think the Ridgeline ever had one. It does share some components - or at least design features - with the Odyssey, and the Odyssey had transmission problems about a decade ago, but I don't know if the Ridgeline, which is obviously more robust in various features than the Odyssey, ever shared the Odyssey transmission. If it shares exactly the same transmission with anything, it would be the first-generation Pilot.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:32 PM   #67
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What a fascinating thread this is, with a wide variety of comments and opinions on all this technical stuff. But great for vehicle specific suggestions and reasons why. Great group of people here, thanks!

I'm still trying to figure this out. I can keep or trade a '08 Outback with 80,000 miles, or keep or trade a '09 low end 4wd Canyon with 74,000 miles, but not both. (We also have specific reasons to keep or get rid of each!) Could do one or the other this fall, or maybe both next year, but need two vehicles. I'm almost convinced a Titanium Escape with ecoboost and the tow package would do it for the little amount of camping we do, and provide decent mpg for commuting and long trips to visit kids and our grandson.

In a way, I'd like to get the egg 1st, then the "right" TV. Choices, choices...

Frank
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:06 AM   #68
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Just to give you another one, the 2014 Jeep Cherokee (not the Grand Cherokee) will be available this fall. It's an in between size, a few inches longer than Escape, CRV, etc and will,have a mfr tow rating of 4500 lbs. probably with the 3.2 V6 and tow package. Ought to get nearly the same mpg as a 2.0 turbo escape, ie mid to high twenties.

JGC is bigger, heavier and has an EPA rating of 24 with 4wd, 25 with 2 wd. Actually, a 2wd JGC Laredo V6 can be had pretty nicely equipped for $30k, gets decent mileage and is rated to tow 6200 lbs, even includes load leveling rear shocks, hitch receiver, wiring, hd cooling, etc. Probably the best combo of compact size, non towing gas mileage, high tow rating and price. I researched this segment for many months before buying a JGC.

Regarding mpg, it is interesting to look up cars on fuelly.com to see what real people are reporting in their own real world driving. If its not a common vehicle there may not be enough data to make the info valuable but some models have mpg reports from many hundreds of drivers. Auto mfrs are getting better at tuning the car to do its best on the EPA test so can advertise higher mpg. For example epa's highest speed in the highway test is 62 mph. Not many people drive that slow (thank goodness) on the freeway.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:02 AM   #69
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Good to know, and thanks! One of my best friends has owned a repair garage for decades, and is not a fan of Jeeps. He says they are problem vehicles. While that will not completely shade my perspective on Jeeps, it makes an impact. I'd like to hear from long time Jeep owners about their experiences. Hmm, maybe some Jeep forums?

Thanks again!

Frank
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:35 AM   #70
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Jeep/Dodge builds vehicles with all the right specs for what people want. They are attractive and come with the right options. Owner satisfaction and loyalty keeps people coming back. However, buy one new and get rid of it at the first sign of problems (usually they start to appear right when the warranty is up). If you're the type of person that expects your vehicles to last from new to 200k with minimal maintenance then look elsewhere...or get an extended warranty.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:44 AM   #71
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I'm sure all the car & truck companies build vehicles they believe people will want Chris, it's just a matter or reliability. For instance, JD Powers this year (for the 1st time in decades) put Chevy/GMC at the top for reliability. I'm not trying to "dis" any make, just relaying what my long-time buddy who owns a repair shop says. I've owned GM products, Ford products and Chrysler products (and a Datsun and VW), so am not brand loyal at all.

Our "problem" is that we will soon be retiring and will not be flush enough to buy a new vehicle when we're retired if the TV we buy soon becomes a cascade of problems. I want to do the very best I can to make an informed decision. This thread and a couple others on this website and are a great help!

Thanks,

Frank
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:06 AM   #72
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I guess what I meant is that Jeep/Dodge leads the industry in bold styling that is eye catching and desirable. I see the new Dodge Charger and go "I want that" even though I'm not even in the market for a mid sized sedan. I see the new Jeep Cherokee and think "I could see myself driving that". I've always loved the Wrangler.

...but then I remember every Chrysler product I've ever owned and the nightmares they've been. The last one was the Dodge Nitro. It looked cooler than the Liberty and the R/T package had some really cool styling. Before 60k was up the Navigation system became useless and the A/C required a $1,500 repair job. Sure it could have been a fluke but on a 90+ degree day my wife was driving it with the windows open and two different Nitro owners hollered at her asking if her A/C was broken too. If it were covered under warranty I might have shrugged it off, but we recharged the system a few times and eventually traded it in for a Ford which has been trouble free.

....buuuut I'm just one person. Some people have great luck with the brand and are lifetime return customers. My only guess is that they manage to time their trade-ins perfectly, or they have just never owned a vehicle that is reliable so they don't know what they're missing.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:18 AM   #73
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This will be my 4th JGC, one from each generation. No particular problems with any. Kept two of them for 130,000 miles.

Every car forum is full of complaints, because the people with trouble free cars don't write about them.

By far, the most expensive car I ever had to maintain was a 2005 Subaru Forester which has great reliability ratings.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:35 AM   #74
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...... My only guess is that they manage to time their trade-ins perfectly, or they have just never owned a vehicle that is reliable so they don't know what they're missing.
Or they may be just so dedicated to the marque, that they will keep buying them anyway. One of my brothers is a diehard Mopar fan/owner, and he keeps on buying them in spite of all the bad luck he has had with them ! He too has had a fair bit of trouble with his Nitro....but he just keeps throwing $$ at it, because he likes it. He has spent so much money on Chrysler transmission repairs in the last 20 years, it's mind boggling. The one thing he did take my advice on was to get AAA towing. It has paid for itself for him......
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #75
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This will be my 4th JGC, one from each generation. No particular problems with any. Kept two of them for 130,000 miles.

Every car forum is full of complaints, because the people with trouble free cars don't write about them.

By far, the most expensive car I ever had to maintain was a 2005 Subaru Forester which has great reliability ratings.
I feel your pain. Out 2008 Outback we bought brand new blew the motor a year ago this past February right out of warranty, cost us $6500, most expensive car repair in my life!

Frank
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:14 PM   #76
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I feel your pain. Out 2008 Outback we bought brand new blew the motor a year ago this past February right out of warranty, cost us $6500, most expensive car repair in my life!

Frank
I worked at a Subaru dealer a few years ago. The guys said part of the problem is where Subaru puts the temperature sensor in the engine. It is in a high spot where air bubbles tend to collect. When the engine does over heat, for whatever reason, the air bubble keeps the temp sensor from reading the real engine temperature. So the the engine overheats to the point of needing a rebuild without really telling you (gauge doesn't move or only moves after the damage is already done).

And they did have leaky head gaskets, but that was later fixed with a bottle of stop leak.

Either way if I owned a Subaru I would add a temperature gauge or at least move the stock sensor.

Jason
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:18 PM   #77
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I'll take the Yote 4runner over the Tonka Toy-styled FJ every day of the week, even with the auto trans. My 06 is the first vehicle I've ever owned that didn't have a standard trans and, strange to say, I don't miss the manual trans.

jack
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:22 PM   #78
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Sitting in the driver seat of the FJ, I found I couldn't see a traffic light when stopped at the intersection, without craning my neck. And, I had no view out either rear quarter ( I'd sure want a rear view camera, what with that tire hanging off the back ).
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #79
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Gee, I sure wish someone had told me that before this motor went "poof." We never had a problem of any kind with this vehicle. My wife loved it. We were leaving her hometown after her mom's funeral and had just got on a 4 lane highway headed north going home, going up a gradual slope when the motor started making death rattles with no warning whatsoever, no idiot lights, no gauges spiking, nothing, just "poof." While we don't much trust it anymore, the additional 6500 bucks in expenses has forced us to hold onto it. On the positive side, it's a new block and one new head, so maybe it will go a lot longer...

Frank
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:28 PM   #80
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My '87 Subaru went poof as well. Timing belt broke. I got lucky in that it didn't destroy the engine when it happened. It broke prior to the mileage at which it should be replaced.
If Subaru still uses the same timing belt ( it's not a timing chain ), owners should pay close attention and adhere to the maintenance schedule.
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