Towing a Scamp 13 with a 4cyl Subaru

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Mary Gessert

We tow a 16 ft. Scamp with our 2004 Outback. It has an automatic transmission and, as recommended in the manual, we usually use 3rd gear instead of Drive, especially in hilly country. We also periodically check loaded weights and tongue weight to make sure we're within the recommended ranges. I have the transmission fluid checked regularly and so far haven't had any problems. The owner's manual does have a warning regarding towing up long inclines in very hot weather, but we live in the east and don't run into those conditions. We are very happy with our setup and are glad that we don't have to have a separate vehicle for towing.

When you say that you have the trans fluid "checked," are you sending samples to a lab, like Blackstone? Or are you just checking the fluid level?

[mcbrew]

So, I bought my Subaru Outback about a month ago. It is a 4-cylinder 2.5i Premium (170hp/170tq). I towed the Scamp for the first time today. Just about 60 miles. No mountains, but some small hills. It towed beautifully! I towed it before, as many of you know, with a 2009 Scion xD. I thought it towed pretty well with the xD, but it is a night and day difference! The CVT transmission is great -- you can set the cruise control and there is no shifting... the RPMs just go up if more power is needed, then go down when it isn't. The most it ever went up to was about 3,000 RPMs at 60 MPH. On flat ground, it went down to 1,600 RPMs or so. No jerky shifting or gear "hunting" like traditional automatics. Really smooth.

I can't wait to take it on a real camping trip in two weeks!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The 2006 Baja brochure doesn't list an optional package, or a restriction on towing capacity based on transmission type or equipment, so it seems like Subaru has not assessed transmission cooling as the limiting factor for towing.

When my Outback was new back in 07 I asked the Subaru servce manager (who also tows with his Outback) about needing a transmission cooler and was told at the time that Subaru does not make/offer them as an option. Was also advised that adding an after market one while the car was still under warrenty was not a good idea in the event that I did have a transmission problem - as they might point fingers at it. Have towed now for 5 years thousands of miles without one and have had no issues. Its an automatic but I do switch over the manual sport mode on hills etc. and I do have the transmission fluid changed.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

So, I bought my Subaru Outback about a month ago. It is a 4-cylinder 2.5i Premium (170hp/170tq). I towed the Scamp for the first time today. Just about 60 miles. No mountains, but some small hills. It towed beautifully! I towed it before, as many of you know, with a 2009 Scion xD. I thought it towed pretty well with the xD, but it is a night and day difference! The CVT transmission is great -- you can set the cruise control and there is no shifting... the RPMs just go up if more power is needed, then go down when it isn't. The most it ever went up to was about 3,000 RPMs at 60 MPH. On flat ground, it went down to 1,600 RPMs or so. No jerky shifting or gear "hunting" like traditional automatics. Really smooth.

I can't wait to take it on a real camping trip in two weeks!

Jesse, glad to hear you are loving your Subaru! They are hard not to love.
I actually like the way mine tows as well & most of the time its easy to forget I'm towing. But if you come out West and hit some of our hills hummmm perhaps I should say MOUNTAINS I think you will find that it will start to hunt. But then thats when you will also learn to love the manual sport option!

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Jesse, glad to hear you are loving your Subaru! They are hard not to love.
I actually like the way mine tows as well & most of the time its easy to forget I'm towing. But if you come out West and hit some of our hills hummmm perhaps I should say MOUNTAINS I think you will find that it will start to hunt. But then thats when you will also learn to love the manual sport option!

Carol, what I mean about not hunting for the right gear is that my Outback doesn't have gears! It has the CVT transmission. Yes, it revs higher or lower, but there is no back and forth jolt between two gears when it can't decide which to be in. It just changes the RPMs vey smoothly to deliver the right amount of power. There are no "preset" gears.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

So, I bought my Subaru Outback about a month ago. It is a 4-cylinder 2.5i Premium (170hp/170tq). I towed the Scamp for the first time today. Just about 60 miles. No mountains, but some small hills. It towed beautifully! I towed it before, as many of you know, with a 2009 Scion xD. I thought it towed pretty well with the xD, but it is a night and day difference! The CVT transmission is great -- you can set the cruise control and there is no shifting... the RPMs just go up if more power is needed, then go down when it isn't. The most it ever went up to was about 3,000 RPMs at 60 MPH. On flat ground, it went down to 1,600 RPMs or so. No jerky shifting or gear "hunting" like traditional automatics. Really smooth.

I can't wait to take it on a real camping trip in two weeks!

"A night and day difference"... in terms of drivetrain power only, or was there a strong difference in some other ways too (like handling, etc)?

You need to stop making me want a Subaru so much!

[Carol H]

Mike I was going to say just go and buy one and get it over with! :-))) but I see in your pofile what you are towing. Not sure on what the tongue weight is on yours but they tend to run a little heaver than the Scamps so it might be a problem with keeping it down to the Subaru limit - sadly the use of an equalizer hitch is a no go with the Outback.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

"A night and day difference"... in terms of drivetrain power only, or was there a strong difference in some other ways too (like handling, etc)?

You need to stop making me want a Subaru so much!

It certainly had more power. The power delivery was very smooth, thanks to the CVT. The longer wheel add (than the previous car) surely helped take out some of the bumps, too. The AWD system helped on my gravel driveway. The hill holder feature works very well, too.

[honda03842]

I know nothing about the CVT. Is there a neutral that you shift into at lights and the like?

Thank you

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I know nothing about the CVT. Is there a neutral that you shift into at lights and the like?

Thank you

There is a neutral, but it has a torque converter like a traditional auto, so no need to do anything special when stopped. Power is transmitted via a beefy steel belt. Both pulleys can change diameter to create any gear ratio.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

There is a neutral, but it has a torque converter like a traditional auto, so no need to do anything special when stopped. Power is transmitted via a beefy steel belt. Both pulleys can change diameter to create any gear ratio.

I guess I don't understand what happens when you take your foot off the gas at speed; I guess it just slides down to a lower gear some how seeking an efficient engine operating point though with no gas being fed above idle flow it must gradually slip to idle speed, not stoping until you step on the brake. It seems this would effectively brake the vehicle.

I also read about people causing neutral to occur as they are driving down hills, virtually stopping gas delivery to the engine and coasting.

It's been a decade since I've driven an automatic car. I guess I'll have to go to the Suburau dealer and drive a CVT.

[jen b]

This is great to know about the Outback! We are figuring on putting another year or two on our 03 Forester, and an Outback is the next likely car candidate.

[mcbrew]

The Subaru CVT trans does a better job of engine braking than any automatic I have owned. No fuel is delivered when the engine is being over-run by the wheels. You can manually shift with paddle shifters, but they are "virtual" gears with pre-determined pulley ratios. Works very well for more aggressive engine braking.

Let me just say that I am also very impressed with their AWD system. There is always power to all four wheels, and the system predicts where power should be distributed [I]before[I] there is a loss of traction. Unlike many other systems where traction loss must first occur before any torque is sent to the other (usually rear) wheels. Check out some of Subaru's comparison testing of their cars and other brands of AWD cars/small SUVs on an inclined treadmill. Subaru All Wheel Drive Traction Testing - YouTube

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Ken in SW VA

Hi, are you still towing your '16 with your Outback? We are considering a loaded '13 to tow with our 4 cylinder '09 Outback. Does your '16 have a shower and/or A/C?

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,
I frequently tow my 16 Scamp with my 2.5 Subaru automatic in GA (rolling hills), AL, and FL. My Scamp has the side dinette and front shower/toilet, plus A/C. It handles well and I feel secure driving it. I'll actually be using my truck this next trip though, only because I need to carry more weight than normal and may need to carry more in the black and gray tanks than normal, which increases the total weight and is likely to cause my tongue weight to greatly exceed the 200 lb Subaru limit.
As long as I can keep my loaded weight under 2500 lbs and my tongue weight at about 200 lbs (Outback limits are 2700/200) then I'm fine towing with my Subaru. It's a good stable and sure-footed tow vehicle.
I have electric brakes (Tekonsha Prodigy) and added a trans cooler. The cooling system must work well, since the temp gauge stays in the same area whether towing or solo.
The Subaru (as does most vehicles) does require more frequent oil changes when towing, and mine also requires running a heavier weight oil than standard, per the manual.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

There is always power to all four wheels, and the system predicts where power should be distributed [I]before[I] there is a loss of traction. Unlike many other systems where traction loss must first occur before any torque is sent to the other (usually rear) wheels. Check out some of Subaru's comparison testing of their cars and other brands of AWD cars/small SUVs on an inclined treadmill. Subaru All Wheel Drive Traction Testing - YouTube

I'm on my 3rd Outback and the traction system is the #1 reason!
I have never felt unsafe driving up a mountain on a road covered with lots of snow. I also live on the side of a mountain where when it snows it is very common to see other SUV, trucks and cars that due to their price tags one would think they should be having little to know problems on our street. Wrong. I love my Subaru as it has never let me down.

Its due to the amazing job it does in the snow that I am really struggling with what to replace it with in order to get a bit more tow cap so it can tow a slightly heavier trailer I have my eye one. Hate the thought of having to give up the great traction of the Outback.

[Ken in SW VA]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

So, I bought my Subaru Outback about a month ago. It is a 4-cylinder 2.5i Premium (170hp/170tq). I towed the Scamp for the first time today. Just about 60 miles. No mountains, but some small hills. It towed beautifully! I towed it before, as many of you know, with a 2009 Scion xD. I thought it towed pretty well with the xD, but it is a night and day difference! The CVT transmission is great -- you can set the cruise control and there is no shifting... the RPMs just go up if more power is needed, then go down when it isn't. The most it ever went up to was about 3,000 RPMs at 60 MPH. On flat ground, it went down to 1,600 RPMs or so. No jerky shifting or gear "hunting" like traditional automatics. Really smooth.

I can't wait to take it on a real camping trip in two weeks!

I will be very interested in hearing how it goes. I've wondered about the CVT, thinking it could be great or it might have difficulty with the added weight. Good luck.

[mcbrew]

We Scamped at Patapsco Valley State Park in Maryland last weekend. The Subaru towed wonderfully, although I need (and just ordered) an anti-rattle device for the hitch. There is just too much play in the receiver.

As we arrived, it had just finished raining, and the road in the park was covered with wet leaves. There was a pretty steep down, the up hill. I was glad I had AWD, although I'm sure I could have done it without. However, I was impressed how well the Outback pulled the Scamp up that very steep hill.

By the way, I also got a chance to use my hitch camera, which is then Master Lock brand. I am pleased with it. It is wireless (more or less). The camera plugs into the car's 4-way trailer connection for power, and the monitor plugs into a 12v outlet. As many reviews have mentioned, the picture is clearer if you then off any Bluetooth devices.

I got 23 MPG on this tank, which included some non-towing miles. I did drive rather aggressively to get a good feel for the car/trailer combo.

[honda03842]

Jesse,
Would you explain the anti-rattle device more fully or maybe add a picture?

I'm not sure I understand the benefit. I will Google it.

Thank you

[honda03842]

Jesse,

I did google it and found there are a wide variety of these devices. Here's a good example with a video. What do you preceive the benefit to be other than rattle elimination?

Roadmaster Quiet Hitch for 2" Trailer Hitches Roadmaster Hitch Accessories RM-061

[Donna D.]

I've heard tapping a chunk of wood between the receiver and hitch... like a wedge also dampens the noise... it's a lot cheaper and replaceable too